<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Interesting comments.<br>I think that if we don't have Net neutrality it will stifle innovation and promote protectionism. <br>For example: My contract, with T-Mobile, gives me 3GB of data. However, I only use a tiny part of this and I can't use voip (directly) because they block it. Now, I have called them to voice my disgust at their policy. They retort with the offer of letting me use voip but pay more. My argument is that if I fill up my car, and pay for the petrol, I expect to take my car wherever I want to use up that petrol. What if someone was to restrict what I could use my car for, then say they want the unused petrol back at the end of the month? That is just what T-Mobile is doing. Further, it is protectionism. They fear that people would use voip for cheaper phone calls - in
my case I am only interested in incoming voip calls, as I don't use my quota of voice minutes, but that is beside the point.<br>I don't have a landline and have, for many years, just used voip. What if Virgin cable were to mess with voip and make it unusable. Well, yes, I could ditch them and go elsewhere but sometimes providers follow each other in their actions and so choice can disappear as a result, perhaps, of a covert cartel.<br>Brian<br></div><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style="font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Thomas Mangin <thomas.mangin@exa-networks.co.uk><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Dick Thomas <xpd259@gmail.com><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Bradlug Mailing list
<bradford@mailman.lug.org.uk><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tue, 29 March, 2011 12:55:29<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Bradford] Fwd: DEAPPG Panel Event on Net Neutrality: A Briefing paper<br></font><br><div>Long answer ... as I can not come and I thought it was fair to echo the view of "the other side"</div><div><br></div><div>This is a very complex debate where every actor only play for itself. Google or Skype do not care about end users right, they care about defending the foundation on which their businesses are run.</div><div>Communication cost have never been so low, if you had to pay a phone bill in the 90's you will surely remember what the cost was. Many ISP bundle free phone call with their offering.</div><div>Why should the governement regulate a market where end users are paying less and less every year ?</div><div>What the paper does not say is that skype built a
business model where the cost of the infrastructure (the skype network) is mostly provided by the user of their software, and that as a result use the ISP infrastructure instead of skype's. This is fair enough and you can argue that as you paid for your DSL line you are free to use it as pleased.</div><div>However this is missing a fundamental issue, you are paying a flat price for your service whatever your consumption. The flat pricing simplifies billing, prevent bad surprises (who remembers 90's phone bills with BBS ?). It however assumes that the usage and price are matched. The elderly only using it to pay his bill pays for the bandwidth greedy games. This is all fine if the incomes from users covers the cost of usage, however with the boom in video services and P2P technologies, this is not the case anymore. Raising the price is not an option in a market consolidating were everyone wants to be the last player (to become the new monopoly) and
where most (but not you) users a oblivious of the "net neutrality" issues. The current solutions are "caps", "fair use policies", and yes marketisation of customers (hopefully phorm did not succed).</div><div><br></div><div>You want a neutral network, this is simple : pay for it. My customers do, and they have it.<br><div>I will pass on some business model like talk talk or Sky where the DSL is used as a "lock in" feature to make profit on other services (TV, mobile, ...) which set unrealistic expectation on the cost of internet service provision.</div><div><div>And do some network abuse of their dominant position - yes they do, and they do it when they are in quasi-monopoly position ....</div></div><div><br></div><div>For me the real question is : how do we keep innovation and competition in the internet ...</div><div><br></div><div>Thomas<br><div> </div><div><div><div>On 29 Mar 2011, at 12:32, Dick Thomas wrote:</div><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">an interesting email I just got about Net Neutrality meeting going on tonight<br>it's come from the house of commons but there were no please don't forward warning so I assume its fair game <div><br></div><div>I'm not sure why I'm getting house of commons emails but I must of complained or emailed some one once but even so interesting read :)</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>DIck<br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Martin Brown</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mbmbrown0@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mbmbrown0@gmail.com">mbmbrown0@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: 29 March 2011 12:18<br>Subject: DEAPPG Panel Event on Net Neutrality: A Briefing paper<br>To: Eric JOYCE <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ericjoycemp@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:ericjoycemp@gmail.com">ericjoycemp@gmail.com</a>>, Sophia PICKLES <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:PICKLESS@parliament.uk" target="_blank" href="mailto:PICKLESS@parliament.uk">PICKLESS@parliament.uk</a>>, Jean-Jaques Sahel <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:jean-jacques.sahel@skype.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:jean-jacques.sahel@skype.net">jean-jacques.sahel@skype.net</a>>, Beth Knight <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:elizabethhiroko@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:elizabethhiroko@gmail.com">elizabethhiroko@gmail.com</a>>, Alex Stanley <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:alexjstanley@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:alexjstanley@gmail.com">alexjstanley@gmail.com</a>>, Dick Thomas <<a rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:xpd259@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:xpd259@gmail.com">xpd259@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br><br><span style="font-family: Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 12px; border-collapse: collapse; color: rgb(20, 20, 20);"><p style="text-align: left; margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;">
<strong><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><font color="#000000"><span><deappg.jpg></span></font></span></span></strong></p><p style="text-align: left; margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;"><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><font color="#000000"><span style="color: rgb(20, 20, 20); font-size: 12px;"><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><font color="#000000">Dear DEAPPG Member, </font></span></span></strong></span></font></span></span></strong></p><p style="text-align: left; margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;"><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><font color="#000000">I have attached a briefing paper for our event this evening on Net Neutrality. I hope you find it useful. This event looks to be very well attended by members of the public and people from the IT and communications industry. If you
can not make it this evening but would still like to ask a question of the panel, feel free to send it to me this afternoon, or tweet during the event using the #deappg tag.</font></span></span></strong></p><p style="text-align: center; margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;"><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="font-size: medium;"><font color="#000000"></font></span></span></strong><strong><span style="font-weight: normal;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 128, 0);"><span style="font-size: medium;">DEAPPG Event:</span></span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 128, 0);"><span style="font-size: medium;"> </span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 128, 0);"><span style="font-size: medium;"></span></span></span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);"><span style="color:
rgb(0, 128, 0);"><span style="font-size: medium;">Net Neutrality, O</span></span></span></span><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 128, 0);"><span style="font-size: medium;">pportunities and Challenges</span></span></span></span><span style="color: rgb(51, 153, 102);"><span style="color: rgb(0, 128, 0);"><span style="font-size: medium;">?</span></span></span></strong></strong></p><div style="margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-size: small;"></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><p style="text-align: center; margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;">
<span style="font-size: medium;">The House of Commons, Committee Room 19 Tuesday 29th March 6.30-8.00pm</span></p><p style="text-align: center; margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;">
This is a panel event open to members of the public:</p><div style="text-align: center;">Speakers include:</div><div style="text-align: center;">Jean-Jaques Sahel, Director Government Affairs, Skype.</div><div style="text-align: center;">
Kip Meek, Senior Public Policy Adviser, Everything Everywhere</div><div style="text-align: center;">Robert Hammond, Head of Postal and Digital Communications, ConsumerFocus</div><div style="text-align: center;">
Rob Reid, Which?</div><div style="text-align: center;">James Heath, Controller for Policy, The BBC</div><div style="text-align: center;">Jim Killock, The Open Rights Group</div><div style="text-align: center;">
Julie Meyer, Chief Executive, Ariadne Capital</div><div style="text-align: center;">Dominique Lazanski, The Tax Payer’s Alliance</div><div style="text-align: center;">Chair: Eric Joyce MP</div><p style="margin: 12px 0px; padding: 0px;">What is the Internet likely to look like in the near future? Will it become a two-tier network with a differentiated payment system for different types of content? Will it be a network that actively filters and discriminates by content and service for payment? This is a debate which continues in both the United States and Europe: people feel passionately about this issue because they feel their internet freedom is threatened. Their freedom of access to information and the means to connect, to cooperate and to collaborate with others is also an extremely important aspect of a creative society and the digital economy . The European Commission has said that one of the founding principles of the Internet is ‘the open
and neutral character of the Internet’ how will this be affected and what advantages, if any, can differential charging for Internet content bring to the consumer?</p>
<div><br></div></span>kind regards<br>-- <br><div>Martin Brown</div><div>deappg coordinator</div><div><div>07527449760</div><div>02072192779</div></div><div><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(28, 28, 28);"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://goog_383307595/">http://www.ju</a></span><span style="font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; color: rgb(28, 28, 28);"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://stgiving.com/martin-brown2">stgiving.com/martin-brown2</a></span></div>
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<span><DEAPPG Open Internet briefing.pdf></span>_______________________________________________<br>Bradford mailing list<br><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:Bradford@mailman.lug.org.uk" target="_blank" href="mailto:Bradford@mailman.lug.org.uk">Bradford@mailman.lug.org.uk</a><br><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bradford">https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/bradford</a><br></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
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