<div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 2:31 PM, Stephane Urdy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com" target="_blank">stephane.urdy@yourprog.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Hi Nick,<br>
<br>
I agree on some points and disagree on other, I believe the choice
of technology chosen to either protect your privacy or hide
something considered today unlawful [it might change tomorrow] is
not specifically bound to the Gnu/Linux system.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think it's out of order to make implications of criminality on public lists<br></div><div><br>I care about the security of my release signing private key because it's been
used to sign hundreds of open source releases installed on millions of machine and is deeply embedded
into the FOSS WOT. The security of millions of Linux users world wide depend on people caring enough to secure private keys like mine. I know there are Linux system admins with keying data also of great importance to them. I think it's important that people understand more widely how they can take steps to secure data like this using Linux.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<br>
Spying and espionage existed prior to the invention of the Gnu/Linux
system, in fact you can even find it in The Holy Bible:<br>
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Spies" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Spies</a><br>
<br>
More recently,<br>
I don't recall people complaining about being arrested or
interrogated at an airport because they had a Linux sticker on their
laptop. <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>On private lists, I've never been ridiculed or doubted (it might have helped that a couple of senior blue chip folks had flown back with me) <br><br></div><div>BradLUGs always seem to me such an open community ready to share ideas and experiences about technology. This is the first time I've written in depth about this on a public list, and after being greeted by hostility, laughter and ridicule I can see why people don't seem to complain in public.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Imagine people taking a plane going to Linux or coding conventions
ahahaha<br>
Otherwise every one with an Android phone would become suspect !<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>The law allows arbitrary detention at UK borders. Anyone who is detained is by definition not a suspect.<br><br>Suspects have rights and must be either arrested or released quickly. <br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Also, I was never asked to start my Linux devices in an airport.<br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Well, jolly good for you :-)<br><br></div><div>People are detained at UK borders in their thousands (according to the government). That most people don't understand the law makes it tough to talk about.<br><br></div><div>And I'll shut up about this now. I only spoke up because people have expressed interest in the past.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Robert<br></div><div> Hi,</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div><div class="h5"><blockquote type="cite">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a related topic. The documents in question were from
Edward Snowden, whistleblowing on the USA and friends spying
activities of which some have been ruled illegal. As 99% was
technology based this is relevant as it brings into question our
ability to be able to report on systems used for spying and
illegal data collection activities.</div>
<div>We need to discuss these topics, moral and rights of how we
should and shouldn't use technology and this includes talking
about software licences, investigation and discovery of
electronic devices for personal and research purposes (such as
finding bugs and alternative uses). If we don't we will never
bring into question the people and organisations we trust to
look after us and be able to highlight any oversight or
misjudgement or worst case blantant misuse of technology.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers Nick</div>
<div><br>
On 21 Jan 2016, at 12:12, Stephane Urdy <<a href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com" target="_blank">stephane.urdy@yourprog.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
Hi Chaps,<br>
<br>
These are interesting topics.<br>
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this was a Linux related
mailing list ?<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Stephane<br>
<br>
<div>On 21/01/16 11:51, Robert Burrell
Donkin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Today's it's spun as European Human Rights. Yesterday
it would have been spun as the great tradition of
British Press Freedom. Take your pick. <br>
<br>
At the expense of ruining a good story, the judgement
(as opposed to the spin) upholds the government's
actions but notes that the law is poorly drafted.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>During detention, there is no statuary mechanism for
the detainee to admit that they have privileged original
documents in their possession and to ask for a
magistrate able to seal them to the court. This is both
unreasonable and inequitable. <br>
<br>
The way these things are usually done are to obtain the
services of a lawyer who arranges for them to be
declared at customs. No one in the civil service seems
to have considered that anyone would be stupid enough to
attempt to smuggle original legal documents through
'nothing to declare'. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>My moral - don't play at being a spy. The British
taking spying far too seriously, and are better at it
than most. Detention is nothing much to be worried
about. The time to worry is when the professional spooks
invite you politely to leave through the special private
exit (before customs, detention ot who have legally
entered the country). During the troubles, if you knew
where the door was, you could see them taking away folk
out from Leeds-Bradford whose records would say they'd
never boarded the plane in Ireland. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>For what it's worth, if you ever want to get
documents out of the country without the British spying
on you, just ask a frenemy to ship them FedEx. That's US
of A, and they take care of their own.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Robert<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:40
AM, Brian A <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk" target="_blank">bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">U.K. Court, in David Miranda
Case, Rules Terrorism Act Violates
Fundamental Rights of Free Press</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">As a background, for those who
have forgotten/not followed this: David
Miranda is the partner of Guardian
journalist Glenn Greenwald who interview Ed
Snowden in Hong Kong.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">It is interesting to note that
this case was won because of the protection
of the European Convention of Human Rights.
As I understand it Cameron wants us out of
European Human Rights - so where would that
leave us!</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" target="_blank">UK Court Rules Terrorism
Act Violates Fundamental Rights of Free
Press</a><br>
</div>
<div>
<table style="width:450px;height:170px;display:block" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="8" style="height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="min-height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;border-collapse:collapse;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style="width:168px" align="center"><a href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important" target="_blank"><img alt="image" src="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/tBUuX894M_JIU5csV4gwMg--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MTY4O3c9MTY4/https://prod01-cdn05.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/01/AP_256267949210-feature-hero.jpg.cf.jpg" style="display: block; margin: auto;" height="168" width="168"></a></div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:14pt"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="height:6px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="min-height:6px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:6pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:20px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:20px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:20pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="1">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2">
<div style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:135px;width:245px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span></span><span></span><a href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block" target="_blank"><span style="margin:0px 0px 3px;font-weight:normal;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden!important;display:inline-block">UK
Court Rules Terrorism Act
Violates Fundamental
Rights...</span></a>
<div>The
court ruled that the UK's laws
breach rights in case
involving seizure of documents
from the partner of Intercept
co-founder Glenn Greenwald.</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="height:4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align:middle;font-family:"Arial","HelveticaNeue","Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<div style="font-size:0pt"><a href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="color:black;text-decoration:none!important" target="_blank"><span style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:145px;min-width:85px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">View
on <span style="font-weight:bold">theintercept.com</span></span></span></a></div>
</td>
<td style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:"Arial","HelveticaNeue","Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<div style="max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">Preview
by Yahoo</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="height:9px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="8" style="height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="min-height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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Cheers,
Stephane
Nulld1g1t Blog:
<a href="http://www.yourprog.com" target="_blank">http://www.yourprog.com</a>
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