<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>One important point I forgot is that my point relates to allowing discussion about using open software that can be inspected for back doors, have strong encryption with no keys for anyone else, and the methods used by authorities and others to infiltrate and work around these, some of which Snowden uncovered.</div><div><br>On 21 Jan 2016, at 12:51, Nick Rhodes <<a href="mailto:nick@ngrhodes.co.uk">nick@ngrhodes.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"><div></div><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>This is a related topic. The documents in question were from Edward Snowden, whistleblowing on the USA and friends spying activities of which some have been ruled illegal. As 99% was technology based this is relevant as it brings into question our ability to be able to report on systems used for spying and illegal data collection activities.</div><div>We need to discuss these topics, moral and rights of how we should and shouldn't use technology and this includes talking about software licences, investigation and discovery of electronic devices for personal and research purposes (such as finding bugs and alternative uses). If we don't we will never bring into question the people and organisations we trust to look after us and be able to highlight any oversight or misjudgement or worst case blantant misuse of technology.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers Nick</div><div><br>On 21 Jan 2016, at 12:12, Stephane Urdy <<a href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com">stephane.urdy@yourprog.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Hi Chaps,<br>
<br>
These are interesting topics.<br>
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this was a Linux related mailing
list ?<br>
<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
Stephane<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/01/16 11:51, Robert Burrell
Donkin wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAKTa1miQ2DRyAL5-CxvihgrDZFUxy5pR=3gWhxc2vCz9C2znTw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Today's it's spun as European Human Rights. Yesterday it
would have been spun as the great tradition of British Press
Freedom. Take your pick. <br>
<br>
At the expense of ruining a good story, the judgement (as
opposed to the spin) upholds the government's actions but
notes that the law is poorly drafted.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>During detention, there is no statuary mechanism for the
detainee to admit that they have privileged original documents
in their possession and to ask for a magistrate able to seal
them to the court. This is both unreasonable and inequitable.
<br>
<br>
The way these things are usually done are to obtain the
services of a lawyer who arranges for them to be declared at
customs. No one in the civil service seems to have considered
that anyone would be stupid enough to attempt to smuggle
original legal documents through 'nothing to declare'. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>My moral - don't play at being a spy. The British taking
spying far too seriously, and are better at it than most.
Detention is nothing much to be worried about. The time to
worry is when the professional spooks invite you politely to
leave through the special private exit (before customs,
detention ot who have legally entered the country). During the
troubles, if you knew where the door was, you could see them
taking away folk out from Leeds-Bradford whose records would
say they'd never boarded the plane in Ireland. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>For what it's worth, if you ever want to get documents out
of the country without the British spying on you, just ask a
frenemy to ship them FedEx. That's US of A, and they take care
of their own.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
Robert<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:40 AM,
Brian A <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk" target="_blank">bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">U.K. Court, in David Miranda Case,
Rules Terrorism Act Violates Fundamental Rights of
Free Press</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">As a background, for those who have
forgotten/not followed this: David Miranda is the
partner of Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald who
interview Ed Snowden in Hong Kong.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">It is interesting to note that this
case was won because of the protection of the
European Convention of Human Rights. As I
understand it Cameron wants us out of European
Human Rights - so where would that leave us!</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" target="_blank">UK Court Rules Terrorism Act
Violates Fundamental Rights of Free Press</a><br>
</div>
<div style="width:450px;font-family:"Georgia","Times","Times
New
Roman","serif";margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<table style="width:450px;height:170px;display:block" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="8" style="height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="min-height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;border-collapse:collapse;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<div style="width:168px" align="center"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important" target="_blank"><img moz-do-not-send="true" alt="image" src="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/tBUuX894M_JIU5csV4gwMg--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MTY4O3c9MTY4/https://prod01-cdn05.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/01/AP_256267949210-feature-hero.jpg.cf.jpg" style="display: block; margin:
auto;" height="168" width="168"></a></div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:14pt"> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="height:6px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="min-height:6px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:6pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:20px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="width:20px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:20pt"> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="1">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:"Georgia","Times","Times
New Roman","serif"">
<div style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:135px;width:245px">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><span></span><span></span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="text-decoration:none!important;color:rgb(0,0,0)!important;line-height:100%;font-size:18px;display:block" target="_blank"><span style="margin:0px 0px
3px;font-weight:normal;font-size:18px;line-height:21px;max-height:43px;color:rgb(0,0,0);overflow:hidden!important;display:inline-block">UK
Court Rules Terrorism Act Violates
Fundamental Rights...</span></a>
<div style="font-size:13px;line-height:20px;color:rgb(153,153,153);max-height:81px;font-family:"Georgia","Times","Times
New
Roman","serif";overflow:hidden">The
court ruled that the UK's laws
breach rights in case involving
seizure of documents from the
partner of Intercept co-founder
Glenn Greenwald.</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="height:4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="vertical-align:middle;font-family:"Arial","Helvetica
Neue","Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<div style="font-size:0pt"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="color:black;text-decoration:none!important" target="_blank"><span style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:145px;min-width:85px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">View
on <span style="font-weight:bold">theintercept.com</span></span></span></a></div>
</td>
<td style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:"Arial","Helvetica
Neue","Helvetica","sans-serif"">
<div style="max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt"><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:rgb(153,153,153)">Preview
by Yahoo</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" style="height:9px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse"><br>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="8" style="height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse">
<div style="min-height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;line-height:0px"> </div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<span class=""><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cheers,
Stephane
Nulld1g1t Blog:
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