<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hi,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I was more referring to the relevance to us than in general - your point below is very valid :)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers, Nick.</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 21 Jan 2016, at 14:31, Stephane Urdy <<a href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com" class="">stephane.urdy@yourprog.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class="">
Hi Nick,<br class="">
<br class="">
I agree on some points and disagree on other, I believe the choice
of technology chosen to either protect your privacy or hide
something considered today unlawful [it might change tomorrow] is
not specifically bound to the Gnu/Linux system.<br class="">
<br class="">
Spying and espionage existed prior to the invention of the Gnu/Linux
system, in fact you can even find it in The Holy Bible:<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Spies">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Twelve_Spies</a><br class="">
<br class="">
More recently,<br class="">
I don't recall people complaining about being arrested or
interrogated at an airport because they had a Linux sticker on their
laptop. <br class="">
Imagine people taking a plane going to Linux or coding conventions
ahahaha<br class="">
Otherwise every one with an Android phone would become suspect !<br class="">
Also, I was never asked to start my Linux devices in an airport.<br class="">
<br class="">
So it is not Linux related topic although Gnu/Linux distributions
offers amongst the best available tools to protect your data.<br class="">
I believe the topic is beyond Linux, it is a political topic and I
agree it is important to talk about it as citizens but I just don't
find it relevant in a Linux mailing list.<br class="">
<br class="">
Cheers,<br class="">
<br class="">
Stephane<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/01/16 12:51, Nick Rhodes wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:6654E43F-26BF-42E3-AAE5-D4D54D6105A8@ngrhodes.co.uk" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div class="">Hi,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This is a related topic. The documents in question were from
Edward Snowden, whistleblowing on the USA and friends spying
activities of which some have been ruled illegal. As 99% was
technology based this is relevant as it brings into question our
ability to be able to report on systems used for spying and
illegal data collection activities.</div>
<div class="">We need to discuss these topics, moral and rights of how we
should and shouldn't use technology and this includes talking
about software licences, investigation and discovery of
electronic devices for personal and research purposes (such as
finding bugs and alternative uses). If we don't we will never
bring into question the people and organisations we trust to
look after us and be able to highlight any oversight or
misjudgement or worst case blantant misuse of technology.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers Nick</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
On 21 Jan 2016, at 12:12, Stephane Urdy <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stephane.urdy@yourprog.com">stephane.urdy@yourprog.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
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Hi Chaps,<br class="">
<br class="">
These are interesting topics.<br class="">
Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this was a Linux related
mailing list ?<br class="">
<br class="">
Kind regards,<br class="">
<br class="">
Stephane<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21/01/16 11:51, Robert Burrell
Donkin wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CAKTa1miQ2DRyAL5-CxvihgrDZFUxy5pR=3gWhxc2vCz9C2znTw@mail.gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">
<div class="">Today's it's spun as European Human Rights. Yesterday
it would have been spun as the great tradition of
British Press Freedom. Take your pick. <br class="">
<br class="">
At the expense of ruining a good story, the judgement
(as opposed to the spin) upholds the government's
actions but notes that the law is poorly drafted.<br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">During detention, there is no statuary mechanism for
the detainee to admit that they have privileged original
documents in their possession and to ask for a
magistrate able to seal them to the court. This is both
unreasonable and inequitable. <br class="">
<br class="">
The way these things are usually done are to obtain the
services of a lawyer who arranges for them to be
declared at customs. No one in the civil service seems
to have considered that anyone would be stupid enough to
attempt to smuggle original legal documents through
'nothing to declare'. <br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My moral - don't play at being a spy. The British
taking spying far too seriously, and are better at it
than most. Detention is nothing much to be worried
about. The time to worry is when the professional spooks
invite you politely to leave through the special private
exit (before customs, detention ot who have legally
entered the country). During the troubles, if you knew
where the door was, you could see them taking away folk
out from Leeds-Bradford whose records would say they'd
never boarded the plane in Ireland. <br class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For what it's worth, if you ever want to get
documents out of the country without the British spying
on you, just ask a frenemy to ship them FedEx. That's US
of A, and they take care of their own.<br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
Robert<br class="">
<div class="">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 10:40
AM, Brian A <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk" target="_blank" class=""></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk">bradlug@hackroyd.org.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div class="">
<div style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">U.K. Court, in David Miranda
Case, Rules Terrorism Act Violates
Fundamental Rights of Free Press</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">As a background, for those who
have forgotten/not followed this: David
Miranda is the partner of Guardian
journalist Glenn Greenwald who interview Ed
Snowden in Hong Kong.</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class="">It is interesting to note that
this case was won because of the protection
of the European Convention of Human Rights.
As I understand it Cameron wants us out of
European Human Rights - so where would that
leave us!</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" target="_blank" class="">UK Court Rules Terrorism
Act Violates Fundamental Rights of Free
Press</a><br class="">
</div>
<div style="width:450px;font-family:"Georgia","Times","Times
New
Roman","serif";margin-top:5px;margin-bottom:5px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<table style="width:450px;height:170px;display:block" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="">
<tbody class="">
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<div style="min-height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;line-height:0px" class=""> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse" class="">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt" class=""> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="vertical-align:middle;width:168px;height:168px;border-collapse:collapse;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<div style="width:168px" align="center" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="text-decoration: none !important;" target="_blank" class=""><img moz-do-not-send="true" alt="image" src="https://s.yimg.com/vv//api/res/1.2/tBUuX894M_JIU5csV4gwMg--/YXBwaWQ9bWFpbDtmaT1maWxsO2g9MTY4O3c9MTY4/https://prod01-cdn05.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2016/01/AP_256267949210-feature-hero.jpg.cf.jpg" style="display: block; margin:
auto;" height="168" width="168" class=""></a></div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse" class="">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt" class=""> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse" class="">
<div style="width:14px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:14pt" class=""> </div>
</td>
<td colspan="2" style="height:6px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse" class="">
<div style="min-height:6px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:6pt" class=""> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:20px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse" class="">
<div style="width:20px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:20pt" class=""> </div>
</td>
<td rowspan="5" style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt;border-collapse:collapse" width="1" class="">
<div style="width:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1pt" class=""> </div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td colspan="2" style="width:100%;vertical-align:middle;font-family:"Georgia","Times","Times
New Roman","serif"" class="">
<div style="line-height:16.5px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);min-height:135px;width:245px" class="">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><span class=""></span><span class=""></span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="line-height: 100%; font-size: 18px; display: block; text-decoration: none !important;" target="_blank" class=""><span style="margin: 0px 0px 3px; font-weight: normal; font-size: 18px; line-height: 21px; max-height: 43px; display: inline-block; overflow: hidden !important;" class="">UK
Court Rules Terrorism Act
Violates Fundamental
Rights...</span></a>
<div style="font-size:13px;line-height:20px;color:rgb(153,153,153);max-height:81px;font-family:"Georgia","Times","Times
New
Roman","serif";overflow:hidden" class="">The
court ruled that the UK's laws
breach rights in case
involving seizure of documents
from the partner of Intercept
co-founder Glenn Greenwald.</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td colspan="2" style="height:4px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse" class=""><br class="">
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td style="vertical-align:middle;font-family:"Arial","HelveticaNeue","Helvetica","sans-serif"" class="">
<div style="font-size:0pt" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://theintercept.com/2016/01/19/miranda-appeal-uk-terrorism-fundamental-rights-violated/" style="text-decoration: none !important;" target="_blank" class=""><span style="display:inline-block;line-height:11px;max-width:145px;min-width:85px;overflow:hidden;max-height:13px" class=""><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:rgb(153,153,153)" class="">View
on <span style="font-weight:bold" class="">theintercept.com</span></span></span></a></div>
</td>
<td style="vertical-align:middle;width:100px;font-family:"Arial","HelveticaNeue","Helvetica","sans-serif"" class="">
<div style="max-width:100px;min-width:80px;overflow:hidden;text-align:right;line-height:11px;max-height:13px;font-size:0pt" class=""><span style="vertical-align:middle;font-size:9px;line-height:11px;color:rgb(153,153,153)" class="">Preview
by Yahoo</span></div>
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td colspan="2" style="height:9px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-size:0pt;border-collapse:collapse" class=""><br class="">
</td>
</tr>
<tr class="">
<td colspan="8" style="height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;border-collapse:collapse" class="">
<div style="min-height:1px;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);font-size:1px;line-height:0px" class=""> </div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<span class=""><font color="#888888" class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Brian</div>
</font></span></div>
</div>
<br class="">
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Cheers,
Stephane
Nulld1g1t Blog:
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Cheers,
Stephane
Nulld1g1t Blog:
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