<html><head></head><body><div class="ydpf5e51e31yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Cheers John. I probably deserve a Let Me Google That For You link. Looks really useful.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Don't know if I ever mentioned but I took voluntary redundancy from Bradford CVS (now CABAD) last year. This month would have been 30 years working there. No clock/watch presentation, no leaving do (manager offered to have it on Zoom) - just two house plants which are not looking too enthusiastic about life.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Hope all is well with you.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">P.</div><div><br></div><div class="ydpf5e51e31signature"><div style="font-family:verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span style="color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;">On Thursday, 25 February 2021, 16:35:10 GMT, John Robert Hudson <j.r.hudson@virginmedia.com> wrote:</span><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="ydpaad92627yahoo_quoted_4575365053" class="ydpaad92627yahoo_quoted"><div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
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<div><div id="ydpaad92627yiv6928251992"><div><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">Hi all</p>
<br clear="none"><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">There is a list of mailman hosts at <a shape="rect" href="https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://wiki.list.org/COM/Mailman%20hosting%20services</a> </p>
<br clear="none"><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">John</p>
<br clear="none"><div class="ydpaad92627yiv6928251992yqt3985935155" id="ydpaad92627yiv6928251992yqtfd41813"><p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">On Thursday, 25 February 2021 13:05:02 GMT Paul Colley via Bradford wrote:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> FYI / may be interest.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Is anyone using Mailman 3? Has anyone migrated from 2 to 3? Does anyone host</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> or know of hosts supporting and/or setting up 3? ----- Forwarded message</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> -----</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> From: Duane Raymond via Practitioners</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> <practitioners@ecampaigningforum.com>To: ECF List</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> <practitioners@ecampaigningforum.com>Sent: Thursday, 25 February 2021,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> 10:42:51 GMTSubject: [ECF] Exciting ECF list changes! Hi ECFers!</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> This weekend a major upgrade of the ECF list is planned. This will mean the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> list is unavailable from Friday 21:00 UCT/GMT until Saturday evening or</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Sunday. So expect from Monday it is a bit bumpy while things get sorted</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> out in real-world usage and the fact that some subscribers won't read this</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> ;-) What does this mean for you?The biggest changes for you is that you</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> will need to confirm your subscription by logging in to the new system and</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> to choose from a number of lists vs just one. Your email address and posts</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> will be migrated. There are likely to be other changes (see below) but this</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> is the most important one - especially since some of you have your lists</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> posts filtered and never see them until you go into a folder or you get the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> digest version of the posts. What will change?mailman3 offers a huge number</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> of improvements, but the top two are: - All posts are in a searchable</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> archive (only accessible if you log in for private lists like ECF) - You</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> can manage your own profile, subscription settings and email addresses -</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> You can engage with the list only via the web if you wish. Note that if you</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> turn of emails, there is a 90% chance you will engage less - The server is</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> powered by 100% renewable energy (Swiss based so covered by the same strict</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> GDPR and data protection rules and agreements as the EU) What doesn't</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> change is that you can still receive the list discussions via email - the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> most engaging way to participate. There are also changes I wish to</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> implement:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> - Split the ECF list into multiple lists on more specific topics to help</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> you choose what types of discussions you wish to be part of - Require</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> subscribers to confirm their subscription since after 15+ years of</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> operating, I'm sure there are some inactive email addresses I can retire</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> ;-) - Expand the information on each subscriber to include country and city</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> to help with connecting nationally and locally - Change the domain for new</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> lists to @campaigningforum.com as digital is now mainstream (unlike when I</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> started it) and some people in the community are more interested in</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> campaigning strategy than digital. - Multiple moderators: the old system</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> had one shared password (and no username) for access to administer - a VERY</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> bad idea and one reason I kept moderation to just me. With the new system,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> there can be multiple administrators, all with their own logins. That can</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> involve more of the community in running it - a goal we've talked about for</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> ages! - Social login: you won't necessarily need to remember a new login</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> for the lists - you can use one of the many social login options to login</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> making it more accessible. - A separate jobs only list will be created for</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> those who only wish to get job postings (a roundup will still go to</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> everyone) and the same for an event listing (and event roundup) - ...and</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> many more....</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Why now?I've wanted to make this change for a decade, but the main criteria</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> - keeping email discussions - wasn't satisfied by alternative tools (web</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> 'forum' tools are generally terrible for engagement). I was exploring</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Groupserver for a while but it is developmentally dead now.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Maiman3 (successor to mailman2 currently used which is 20+ years old) has</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> been available for a while, but immature and with no ability to migrate</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> from mailman2. It has only gained this capability in the last year - and</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> now it has been 'in the wild' for long enough to be considered a viable</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> alternative. Secondly, my existing hosting provider, webfaction, got</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> purchased by GoDaddy a year or so ago and they are migrating the servers</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> and will no longer support mailman2 (or 3). Their migration deadline is end</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Feb ;-) I have actually been working on migration since October last year</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> (on and off between paid work) and after nights of fighting to get the</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> right hosting company who can support it (most don't) and trying to get it</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> to run (I'm no server expert - but I'm becoming one!), I finally decided to</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> hire someone to install it ;-) He already has a hosting company that hosts</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> 3000 mailman3 lists so he knows what he is doing and can provide support in</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> the future. Thanks to subscribers and regular donors:I want to thank all of</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> you for helping make the ECF community so wonderful to be part of....and a</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> special thanks for the regular 'donors' who contribute a small amout each</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> month/year to help pay for running the community. If you didn't know this</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> was an option it is because I haven't mentioned it in a while - but it will</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> be built in as an option at sometime in the future (not for at least a</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> year). Also thanks to everyone who posts paid jobs and those who pay for</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> event postings - each of those also help pay for the community moderation</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> and upkeep. Future changesThis migration is key for a huge range of plans</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> to come from community involvement in running it, to hosting other forums,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> to better updates on events and jobs and much more. A separate jobs list</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> will be created because soe many people just want to receive job listings</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> via email and of course, an new FairSay website (next step) to bring it all</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> together. We can even discuss some of the changes together to find what</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> people need! Cheers,</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Duane</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> ========================================================</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Duane Raymond</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> FairSay - Making Campaigning Count</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> UK: +44 (0)207 993 4200</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Switzerland: +41 (0)43 538 3641</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Skype: fairsayLinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/duane</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Blog: http://fairsay.com/blog/</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Web: http://fairsay.com/Twitter: http://twitter.com/fairsay</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> FairSay is a ltd. company registered in England and Wales. Reg. No. 5244802.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> == Join the 2021 Campaigning Forum, Sep. 27-29, Oxford ==</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Theme: Shifting Power.</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> See more at http://fairsay.com/ecf2021?s=ecfs</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> ========================================================</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Who have you met recently that would be interested in joining this</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> community?</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Direct them to: http://fairsay.com/ecflist</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> _______________________________________________</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> To post to the eCampaigning Forum Practitioners list, email:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> Practitioners@ecampaigningforum.com</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> </p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> For list support email:</p>
<p style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;margin-left:0;margin-right:0;">> practitioners-owner@ecampaigningforum.com</p>
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