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<font size="-1"><font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Thank you
Wayland.<br>
<br>
I agree that we shouldn't assume that Labour meant well, and that
therefore they can be forgiven everything. The government is there to
run the country. Whether or not their heart is in the right place is
immaterial. If we were talking about a doctor there wouldn't be any
question of whether or not they meant well if they had a similar record
of such appalling cock-ups.<br>
<br>
Historically, authoritarianism has at least been efficient even if it
is oppressive. Our lot can't even manage that, although I'm sure that
if asked they'd volunteer to take on more special powers in the name of
efficiency.<br>
</font></font><br>
<br>
Wayland Sothcott wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:48552819.8070500@sothcott.co.uk" type="cite">Tom
Robbins wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">The Internet isn't a power but rather a
resource, and unusually for a resource is not subject to scarcity.
Artificially imposing scarcity on it is just a bloody silly idea, which
I hope is doomed for failure.
<br>
<br>
I can be so idealistic some times.
<br>
<br>
The New Deal isn't really a good example of Labours activities, since
it was put into place by John Major's government. I'll agree that they
have done a lot for vulnerable people, but that has included widening
the definition of vulnerable to damn near everyone. It doesn't make
them liberal, it makes them (vaguely) benevolent. To paraphrase: a
benevolent authoritarian is still authoritarian.
<br>
<br>
Council housing and unemployment benefits might be nice, but we've also
had war, paranoia, the undoing of centuries of citizens rights, being
party to torture and murder, and the surveillance society. Yon Tony has
been one of the great prime ministers in a similar, although slightly
less extreme way, to how Hitler was one of the great German
chancellors: he's achieved some quite spectacular things, some of them
even benefited the world at large, but a lot of it wasn't nice and has
been carefully ignored.
<br>
<br>
Toby Whaymand wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I your points are very vialed. With regards
to the data protection Act I'm not saying it right or wrong but just
that how it is. <br>
Sadly with great power, (being the internet) comes great responsibility
(can't remember which movie or TV show I got that from, prob Star Trek)
and there needs to be some kind of control even if it means having new
laws that make exceptions to the Data Protection Act.
<br>
<br>
With regards to Labour without a huge debate they have done a lot for
vulnerable people. <br>
The Council have a legal duty to house anyone who lived in the area for
2 years or have a connection like family members in the area, who have
live in the area for over 5 years.
<br>
<br>
With regards to the unemployment New Deal started within days of Labour
coming into power back in 1997 and millions of under 25 years old got
into employment and higher education. The type of vulnerable people
who otherwise would have been pushed aside. - To me that very liberal.
<br>
<br>
I know Labour have made mistakes and I don't want to go into a debate
but it is important to remember all the good stuff Mr Blur has done for
us. I would even say he was one of the Great Prime Ministers of are
time.
<br>
<br>
Thanks
<br>
<br>
Toby
<br>
<br>
-----------------------------------------
<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
Tom,
<br>
<br>
I am glad you said all that, for a moment I felt I was living inside an
alternate universe run by the BBC (since David Kelly's death). At least
in terms of government I no longer believe the saying "Never attribute
to malice what can be explained by incompetence". To that I say "Ooops,
so sorry you tripped over my foot, how careless of me to stretch my leg
just as you were hurrying past".
<br>
<br>
Toby,
<br>
<br>
How about tax credits, good thing or bad thing? With the tax system
it's possible and actually required for a person to calculate their own
tax, even if that's an unpleasant job. With tax credits you let a
government agency tell you what you're entitled to, they then pay you a
regular lump of much needed money. If you were not poor then you would
not need tax credits. Then a year later they tell you that you were
overpaid and you have a week to pay back the overpayment. Government
incompetence in such a delicate area looks malicious. It's inexcusable
and it's not a one off.
<br>
<br>
It's time we stopped assuming their heart's in the right place and that
government action that leads to harm was a mistake. There are too many
such 'unfortunate' mistakes for this not to be deliberate. The fuel
tanker drivers are on strike, they are only trying to get a pay award
but I suspect those with holding the pay award are hoping to gain from
the strike itself. Maybe the government can exercise or extend it's
emergency powers? Maybe the price of petrol is driven further upwards?
Remember a very similar thing happened with the refinery last month. I
know that people with 'important' local authority jobs are getting
special documentation to allow them to get petrol when others cannot.
You can't argue with that but is this a training exercise for when this
becomes the norm?
<br>
<br>
I do agree that Tony is one of the Greatest in my lifetime, Maggie was
probably more important.
<br>
<br>
Wayland.
<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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