[Cumbria] The last word
Gleaston Water Mill
cumbria at mailman.lug.org.uk
Sun Jan 12 00:02:01 2003
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Now the ‘bun fight’ seems to have settled and I have been on the end of some
of the posts (albeit indirectly), it’s time to have my say.
I think that good debate is healthy, but I don’t believe that there is room
for bad manners or language (everyone) and making comparisons with groups
which are worse is no excuse.
Please also be factual if you want to criticise. So Chris, with reference to
your posting of 6th Jan, the facts are as follows:
<<The LUG was dying and failing to accomodate everyone's needs in its
previous incarnation, as far as I am aware, it was dying a death
without Jamie's efforts, ......>>
Please remember that I had the initiative to form the group and Jamie
attended the first meetings. As best qualified, and at his request, control
of the website was passed to him from day one.
The early meetings were good, they were structured, and except for Jamie and
Dan Andersson we were all beginners.Dan is 'guru' standard and also a good
instructor - a rare combination!
<<I am glad that the LUG has finally been revived and new life and
viewpoints have been injected by the people from Kendal and the other parts
of the county.......>>
It never really stopped. Some of us continued to meet occassionally, but
after Jamie went to uni the website never got updated and we did not have
access to it.
<<The effort put in by these people, to grab the mailing list and website
from Mike's control, under which it was quite clearly dying.....>>
'These people' were Ken Hough, Dave Murphy and myself. There was no question
of grabbing the website from my control - I didn't have it. I did agree
with Dave that we should get the access codes and he would take over control
and start a mailing list which didn't exist.
We also discussed the difficulties of running a group with mixed skills and
suggested that this could be talked over at one of the meetings.
No one seemed interested at the last meeting when we were 'eyeball to
eyeball' although I tried on several occasions to inject some structure.
I personally do not support involving everyone in a presentation and have no
problem with forming smaller interest groups within a main meeting. However
so as I don't waste my time I would like to know what people want from the
meetings or there is no point in having them.
<<....and then to make the concession of carrying on the meetings at the
watermill, is pretty damn decent.>>
I find this comment particularly galling, and the main reason why I decided
to make this posting.
When we were reviving the group, I discussed venue with both Ken and Dave,
both of whom have a considerable journey. I suggested that we should have
meetings better suited to their locations, but they were happy to continue
at the mill and review alternative locations later.
Frankly, I think it is 'pretty damn decent' of me to make the facility
available. Just bear in mind that I pay the costs for heating, lighting and
cleaning etc. which I am happy to continue to do. Rather than abuse my
hospitality, maybe you would prefer to host the meetings or find a new
venue?
Mike Brereton
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<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Now the=20
=91bun fight=92 seems to have settled and I have been on the end of some =
of the=20
posts (albeit indirectly), it=92s time to have my=20
say.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">I think=20
that good debate is healthy, but I don=92t believe that there is room =
for bad=20
manners<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003> </SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>or</SPAN> language<SPAN =
class=3D990215021-11012003>=20
(everyone) and making comparisons with groups which are worse is no=20
excuse.</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>Please also be factual if you want to =
criticise. So=20
Chris, with reference to your posting of 6th Jan, the facts are as=20
follows:</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN> </P><SPAN=20
class=3DEmailStyle15><SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>
<P><SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003><<</SPAN>The LUG was dying and =
failing=20
to accomodate everyone's needs<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003> =
i</SPAN>n its=20
previous incarnation, as far as I am aware, it was dying a death<SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003> <BR></SPAN>without Jamie's =
efforts, <SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>.....</SPAN>.<SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>>><BR>Please remember that I had the =
initiative=20
to form the group and Jamie attended the first meetings. As best =
qualified,=20
and at his request, control of the website was passed to him from =
day one.=20
<BR>The early meetings were good, they were structured, and except for =
Jamie and=20
Dan Andersson we were all beginners.Dan is 'guru' standard and also a =
good=20
instructor - a rare combination!<BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003><<</SPAN>I am glad that the LUG has =
finally=20
been<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003> </SPAN>revived and new life and =
viewpoints=20
have been injected by the people<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003> =
</SPAN>from=20
Kendal and the other parts of the county.<SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>......>><BR>It never really stopped. =
Some of us=20
continued to meet occassionally, but after Jamie went to uni the website =
never=20
got updated and we did not have access to it.<BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003><<</SPAN>The effort put in by these =
people, to=20
grab the mailing list and website<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003> =
</SPAN>from=20
Mike's control, under which it was quite clearly dying<SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003>.....>><BR>'These people' were Ken =
Hough, Dave=20
Murphy and myself. There was no question of grabbing the website from my =
control - I didn't have it. I did agree with Dave that we =
should get=20
the access codes and he would take over control and start a mailing list =
which=20
didn't exist.<BR>We also discussed the difficulties of running a group =
with=20
mixed skills and suggested that this could be talked over at one of the=20
meetings.<BR>No one seemed interested at the last meeting when we were =
'eyeball=20
to eyeball' although I tried on several occasions to inject some =
structure.<BR>I=20
personally do not support involving everyone in a presentation =
and=20
have no problem with forming smaller interest groups within a main =
meeting.=20
However so as I don't waste my time I would like to know what people =
want from=20
the meetings or there is no point in having them.</SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003><BR></SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003><<....</SPAN>and then to<SPAN=20
class=3D990215021-11012003> </SPAN>make the concession of carrying on =
the meetings=20
at the watermill, is<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003> </SPAN>pretty damn =
decent.<SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003>>><BR>I find this comment=20
particularly galling, and the main reason why I decided to make this=20
posting.<BR>When we were reviving the group, I discussed venue with both =
Ken and=20
Dave, both of whom have a considerable journey. I suggested that we =
should have=20
meetings better suited to their locations, but they were happy to =
continue at=20
the mill and review alternative locations later.<BR>Frankly, =
I think it is=20
'pretty damn decent' of me to make the facility available. =
Just bear in=20
mind that I pay the costs for heating, lighting and cleaning etc. =
which I=20
am happy to continue to do. Rather than abuse my hospitality, maybe you =
would=20
prefer to host the meetings or find a new venue?</SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D990215021-11012003>Mike=20
Brereton<BR></SPAN></P></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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