yes, microsoft and linux are both terrible we know...and <br>I will make a mint doing close source software when I leave uni?<br>who told you I was at uni? do I have an information leakage going on?<br><br>and we both up far to late, typing stuff into a terminal<br>for no apparent reason..<br><br>we are both in fact 'loons' mwwwhaahhahahhaahaha<br><br>In a bit,<br>Lee<br><br><br><b><i>Gary Short <gary@garyshort.org></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Lee Hughes wrote:<br>> Actually someone else regarded you as a troll. it was not me.<br><br>I know, but I believe that you referred to my posts as trolling, which <br>is odd because I said "pay for teachers not laptops" and you heard <br>"Linux sucks!". But hey never mind.<br><br>> but if your going to come in with widely off the mark opinions,<br><br>In what way is my opinion of "teachers not laptops" off the mark? I mean
<br>do we do that here? Do we say don't increase the number of teachers in <br>our schools, instead have laptops? No, we don't. Is any country in the <br>developed world advocating reducing teacher numbers and increasing <br>laptop numbers? If there is I can't find it. Even if you think laptops <br>are better than teachers, you can't really describe my opinions as <br>"widely off the mark", can you?<br><br>> have you<br>> actually watch any of the video's, or done any home work on this, I did<br>> keep asking you, so have you? honestly?<br><br>I keep telling you, I have no problem with the technology behind OLPC, <br>its the concept I believe to be wrong.<br><br>> okay, it may be a laptop vs teacher debate..why can't we have both?<br><br>Damn good question; I agree both would be great, but that's not what's <br>on offer.<br><br>> your attitude may be you would rather not act, than give something ago.<br><br>That's not true. I'm not saying do nothing; I'm
saying send teachers not <br>laptops.<br><br>> This can be seen as an experiment? unless you try , then why don't<br>> we sit here in the western world, recoding our application's into the next<br>> Microsoft buzz word technology. Just the same regurgitation of the <br>> same technology just with a different front end.<br><br>I'm still not understanding why you think Microsoft is an issue here. <br>Its not about technology.<br><br>> <br>> I'd like you to review this, and see my argument.<br>> <br>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDsIFspVzfI<br><br>Okay, I've watched the video and I think its fair to say that whether we <br>ship laptops or teachers to the developing world its going to have <br>little or no effect on global warming either way. Though I do accept <br>that there is a slight possibility that I'm wrong here and that shipping <br>laptops to the African poor is the answer Al Gore's been looking for. ;-)<br><br>> so, it may not be a
linux vs microsoft scenario after all.<br><br>It never was Lee.<br><br>> I'd rather seem some kind of change, rather than just say, well that's<br>> the way it is. Nothing changes like that. Open source is about experimenting<br>> with technology and ideas. Being a microsoft developer , you don't have<br>> that chance, your technology is fed to you, you have no control of it's <br>> path,<br>> if you don't like it, you can't lump it either. Only dead fish swim with <br>> the Stream,<br>> and I feel like that every time I boot into Visual 'whatever' studio. In <br>> fact<br>> I'd say that your a consume API's? Your a consumer, you consume Microsoft<br>> products<br>> <br><br>Okay, I'd make an arguement here, but I think we both know I'd be <br>wasting my time, so I'll just ask you this one question; when you leave <br>university and you go into full time employment, do you think you'll be <br>working in the open source community full
time? Even if you work in that <br>community in your spare time, you should probably be sensible enough to <br>realise that you'll only be able to do that because you get a salary <br>from your day job, and the balance of probability is that your day job <br>will be working with closed source software; whether you end up working <br>in an MS shop (I know you don't think you will, but I started out coding <br>Smalltalk under Linux for IBM) or whether you go into a games company <br>and you are working with PS3 game dev consoles, its all closed source.<br><br>> so, what your saying in a nutshell, is laptops are a bad idea, you need<br>> to employ teachers.<br><br>Its not a bad idea per se, just not the best use of the money IMHO<br><br>> Saying that, your saying the only structure that works is that teachers are<br>> the only ones we can learn from?<br><br>Not the only structure, just the best one. That's we have teachers not <br>laptops in our schools
here.<br><br>> I believe olpc will work best with mentors, mentors are always so so <br>> much better, they don't force feed you information, you do that, you <br>> spend time<br>> researching stuff, learning stuff, and your mentor guides you, helps you<br>> over difficult concepts and that's true knowledge.<br><br>So if you have a mentor to guide you, what will you use the laptop for? <br>What is the difference between a teacher and a mentor in your arguement?<br><br>> What it we found, after all this time, we'd be learning the wrong stuff?<br><br>How can you learn the wrong stuff? What would the wrong stuff be?<br><br>> But don't get me wrong, I'm not out to toast you.............<br><br>You can imagine how relieved I am to hear that.<br><br>> stop selling out with all this microsoft bullshit,<br><br>Again, I never mention Microsoft but you feel the need to attack me <br>because I use MS products to earn a living, why is that? What open
<br>source software will you use to earn a living when you leave university? <br>How will you earn a living using open source software?<br><br>> If you make money from microsoft, that's fine, go and make some money<br>> with microsoft.....<br><br>Hey I'm sorry that the fact I use MS products and that I actually take <br>money for the software I create offends you so much, but I'm afraid the <br>stark truth is, at the end of the month the bank want my mortgage paid <br>and Tescos et al want paying for the food me and my family eat. If you <br>can tell me how I can do that using open source tools, then I'll gladly <br>go back to coding Smalltalk on my linux box. If you can't, then could <br>you get off my back about it?<br><br>> This is a linux list, I'm sure I'd get flamed to death if I signed up to<br>> a microsoft lists (do such things exist) deep with the msdn website,<br>> and said..hey .net is rubbish. <br><br>The sad thing is you wouldn't. I know this
'cos people on the list do it <br>all the time. It seems like that sort of thing only happens on open <br>source lists. Oh, and I never said linux sucked, in fact, I never <br>mentioned linux at all.<br><br>> now, I'll wait to be called some money hating , communist scum...<br><br>Why on earth would I call you that? Your ideas are naive I believe, but <br>I'd never attack you personally for holding them. Why would you think I <br>would?<br><br>> at least it a start, at least I can say I'm contributing to something, that<br>> might make a difference, rather than sitting at my desk all day, <br>> reinstalling<br>> another windows server that has 'had a <insert long="" list="" here=""> problem'<br><br>You can try as much as you like, you wont draw me into a MS vs OS flame <br>war, life is just way too short. Like I said before, I said "Teachers <br>not laptops" the fact that you chose to hear "MS is better than Linux" <br>is up to you. I'll debate that point
with anyone who wants to, but <br>you're not going to get me say MS is better than linux or vice versa. Sorry.<br><br>-- <br>Cheers,<br>Gary<br>http://www.garyshort.org<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>dundee GNU/Linux Users Group mailing list<br>dundee@lists.lug.org.uk http://dundee.lug.org.uk<br>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dundee<br>Chat on IRC, #tlug on dundee.lug.org.uk<br></insert></blockquote><br><p> 
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