<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">I don't really understand isp that have caps...<br><br>say I have 20gb cap? sending my data to linx,, over a switch to another uk<br>isp/data center and then back again (hopefully) is that the same 'cost' as downloading <br>20gb from japan or new zealand? of course not. So non sea cable/sat links <br>(i.e expensive to maintain and install) are charged no differently to copper wires that<br>have been installed since the 1900's?<br><br>what if I was to down 20gb for A & A servers, do I get metered for that? <br><br>whats wrong with the old frame relay way of doing things? i.e you given 128kb/s a second,<br>but you can burst when you need it? It just makes so much sense? you don't need 50mb/s<br>when sending a email, however you need it for large files. So ISP's should give you<br>a 1:1 contented 128kb/s link, but you can burst 32mb when ever you
need it.<br>(and you pay for this). Imagine being able to burst to 1 gigabit but only for seconds.<br>Thats a couple of distro's you've just downloaded.<br><br>Using this simple way of doing things, you could probably support the entire internet<br>usage in the uk on a single fiber optic cable. (yep, that's right, 1 fecking cable).<br>The technology is there.......<br><br>so when you think of it's this way, your being ripped of. well what about the service<br>you say.. try and find any isp that does 'service' you best hope is Zen/Newnet. <br>But unfortuantly, due to the comms regulation on this island, you've got no chance of getting anything of high quality. <br><br>data networking is not difficult, not smoke and mirrors..... it's very simple, do you think<br>BT invented the internet?<br><br>I find this very bizzare?<br><br>I much prefered the internet when people just hung cables out of windows, and connected<br>it together willy
nilly.<br><br>You payfor everything, don't you think raw data (not information) should be<br>zero cost, It's not like it actually really exists does it. (it's a electrons , photons &radio waves)<br><br>Data communication is not telephone calls!!! stop treating it this way.<br><br>metering internet bandwidth is a very stupid idea for a very small island. <br><br>but then again that's what you get in this country...<br><br>I'd certainly recommend that some of you lot get together and start you own isp<br>using h2o as you metro transit. forget dsl (dodgy subscriber line) it's just a joke in<br>my book. It's a cost saving. start laying some fiber.. it's the only way to go.<br><br>If ISP offer you no more than a data connection, i.e no support, no email,. no usenet,<br>then why do you actually need an ISP, if ther is not Service?<br><br>I wonder what the ISP industry would look like if we unbundled the power of BT twety<br>years ago? It's that age old
question, how to you privatise a monoploy.....<br><br>answer is you don't....<br><br>Cheers,<br>Lee<br>--- On <b>Fri, 13/2/09, Simon Wells <i><swells@computing.dundee.ac.uk></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">From: Simon Wells <swells@computing.dundee.ac.uk><br>Subject: Re: [dundee] Broadband Providers<br>To: "Sean McRobbie" <lug@seany.us>, "Tayside Linux User Group" <dundee@lists.lug.org.uk><br>Cc: "Simon Wells" <swells@computing.dundee.ac.uk><br>Date: Friday, 13 February, 2009, 4:37 PM<br><br><pre>Hi Sean, not a major problem as such, just minor niggles over the years. Whilst<br>their customer facing staff are very polite, it is difficult to get actual<br>technical know-how from them which usually involves being passed backwards and<br>forwards and being placed on hold a lot. Recently a firmware upgrade to my<br>router had caused an issue
with my service. I could download my mail, use the<br>web, and ssh but could not use an ssl site or send email. It wasn't<br>immediately apparent where the problem lay but all of my questions to try and<br>track down where the problem lay were responded to with "We do not block<br>any services" which was repeated ad infinitum. That said their broadband<br>service has been rock solid over the last few years (although I still won't<br>use their mail servers).<br><br>The most recent problem happened because I work from home most of the time and<br>often move large datasets between my work and home machines. This coincided with<br>my moving some very large archives from work to home which sent me over the<br>allowed transfer for the FUP for the first time. Yes I know I could use an<br>external drive and carry the data home but I would rather just initiate a data<br>transfer. Anyway at this point I found that there is no option to buy extra<br>bandwidth, all
you can do is wait until your average usage falls back into line<br>with FUP. In the meantime your peak speed, between 6AM and Midnight is 128kBps.<br>I cannot not work while I wait for restrictions to be lifted so I decided to<br>look for an alternative, hence my question to the TLUG.<br><br>Ultimately, if anybody is interested I have stayed with Demon but moved up to a<br>business account which doubles my upload speed and removes any bandwidth<br>restrictions. Because there is also a special offer at the moment where you get<br>the uncapped 8MB business service for the price of the uncapped 2MB service I<br>decided to stick with them.<br><br>Andrews & Arnold look really good but I actually do most of my work during<br>peak times so their usage caps are backwards for me. If it was purely for home<br>usage then I would have gone with them but to work out a package which fit my<br>work needs would have cost more than the equivalent Demon service,
especially<br>given the current offer.<br><br>Basically, I had outgrown my current package and was looking for an<br>alternative. Sorry to alarm you Sean ;)<br><br>Simon<br><br>On 5 Feb 2009, at 20:25, Sean McRobbie wrote:<br><br>> Again though, I'd like to know what problems are causing people to<br>leave Demon.<br>> <br>> If something bad is going on with them (apart from being owned by C&W)<br>please let me know so I can leave them before I am stung.<br>> <br>> Regards,<br>> Sean McRobbie<br>> <br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: "Andrew Clayton" <andrew@digital-domain.net><br>> To: dundee@lists.lug.org.uk<br>> Sent: Thursday, 5 February, 2009 20:22:05 GMT +00:00 GMT Britain, Ireland,<br>Portugal<br>> Subject: Re: [dundee] Broadband Providers<br>> <br>> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:16:35 +0000, Simon Wells wrote:<br>> <br>>> Hi everybody,<br>>> <br>>> I am considering changing
my broadband provider from demon.net to<br>>> something else. Does anybody have any suggestions for good providers?<br>>> (I cannot get cable so will stick with ADSL for the time being).<br>>> <br>>> I am leaning towards ukfsn.org at the moment, they have scaleable<br>>> bandwidth allowances so I don't get too penalised for heavy usage,<br>>> just shifted up into the next band, and they actually have a way to<br>>> track how much you have transferred, rather than surprising you with<br>>> a restriction. Also their donation of profits to free software<br>>> projects is having a large effect on my decision at the moment.<br>>> Nevertheless, I thought that I would try here for more suggestions<br>>> before making a final decision.<br>> <br>> They are probably OK. At least the money goes to a good cause.<br>> <br>> I use Andrews & Arnold http://aaisp.net.uk/, also one of the
smaller<br>> technical ISPs, plenty of ex demonites (myself included) are with them.<br>> As well as Linux folks, like Alan Cox, David Woodhouse (and Dave Jones<br>until<br>> he moved to the US). They'll give you blocks of static IPs, support<br>IPv6 and<br>> don't block or filter traffic/ports and don't force you through<br>any proxies.<br>> Just a nice a raw internet connection. Yes, they are not the cheapest,<br>this<br>> is to discourage people who would use things like p2p all day long, they<br>do<br>> closely meter traffic usage , but provide you with detailed graphs to<br>> show useage/latencies etc. http://aaisp.net.uk/kb-broadband-cqm.html<br>> <br>> They are also pretty good at discovering problems within BT and<br>> getting onto them to fix stuff. Oh and they actively support Linux and<br>> use it extensively in their own network, including core routers.<br>> <br>> They do business in very open maner.
They have a USENET news group,<br>> uk.net.providers.aaisp A blog at http://aaisp.blogspot.com/ and an<br>> IRC channel at irc://irc.nixhelp.org/A&A where employees of the<br>> company (including the Director) hang out.<br>> <br>> They do go for the more technical user (of which you'd certainly<br>> apply) but if your usage is likely to be including a lot of<br>> bittorreting and p2p stuff etc, then they maybe aren't for you.<br>> <br>> <br>> Andrew<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> dundee GNU/Linux Users Group mailing list<br>> dundee@lists.lug.org.uk http://dundee.lug.org.uk<br>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dundee<br>> Chat on IRC, #tlug on dundee.lug.org.uk<br>> <br>> _______________________________________________<br>> dundee GNU/Linux Users Group mailing list<br>> dundee@lists.lug.org.uk http://dundee.lug.org.uk<br>>
https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dundee<br>> Chat on IRC, #tlug on dundee.lug.org.uk<br><br>Dr. Simon Wells<br>=============<br><br>E-mail: swells@computing.dundee.ac.uk<br>IM: sw3lls@yahoo.co.uk<br>Mail: School of Computing,<br> Queen Mother Building,<br> University of Dundee,<br> Dundee, DD1 4HN.<br>WWW: http://quiddity.computing.dundee.ac.uk/swells/blog/<br>Phone: +44 (0)1382 386 526<br>Fax: +44 (0)1382 385 509 (FAO: Simon Wells)<br><br><br><br><br></pre><pre>_______________________________________________<br>dundee GNU/Linux Users Group mailing list<br>dundee@lists.lug.org.uk http://dundee.lug.org.uk<br>https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/dundee<br>Chat on IRC, #tlug on dundee.lug.org.uk</pre></blockquote></td></tr></table><br>