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Christopher Hunter wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1252625313.20207.145.camel@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Unfortunately, it's the existence of the "welfare state" and the
pernicious influence of the bogus "socialists" with their "equality"
nonsense that has largely got us all into the current mess.</pre>
</blockquote>
"This current mess" of a welfare state is far better for most people
than society the way it used to be. Be bitter because the majority is
not willing to support your Randian wet dream all you like, but don't
expect it to change as long as most people recognize the value of what
they get from having a social welfare system available.<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1252625313.20207.145.camel@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Marx is entirely discredited, and his ideas led to just another way of
keeping the peasants docile and allowing the pigs to enjoy their trough.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Whether or not one agrees with Marxism, most of the modern welfare
state is heavily based on ideas that gained prominence in via Marx and
Marxist ideologers, via Bernsteins reformism. That others twisted and
abused his ideas doesn't change that fact. To call Marx "entirely
discredited" is to ignore the history of the workers movements in
practically every developed country and the effect his ideas had on
them. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1252625313.20207.145.camel@localhost" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Sure, if you make as much as Christopher or me, you could probably live
better by moving somewhere where nobody cares about ordinary people and
taxes are accordingly lower.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Yes - and you'd be happier for it.
</pre>
</blockquote>
No, I'd be miserable seeing the suffering around me and/or walling
myself off from the world to avoid them. Either way, I much prefer the
UK or my native Norway to anywhere that's likely to make you happy. <br>
<blockquote cite="mid:1252625313.20207.145.camel@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Why? Why on earth should YOU have to pay for some indolent lard-arsed
family of drunks paying for their bad habits with the fruits of YOUR
labour?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Contrary to your assumption, almost everyone I've met who has needed
help from the government has been hard working, decent people who has
been in need of help due to circumstances largely or totally beyond
their control; yes, there will bad seeds; no, I'm not going to support
changes that will cause hardships for all the people who genuinely need
help just because of some abuse. Your characterization is extremely
arrogant, and insulting to all those hard working people who has found
themselves in trouble at one time or another.<br>
<br>
This is my last word on the matter - if you do reply, I'll read it out
of courtesy, but I won't bother with another response.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Vidar
</pre>
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