*grabs the popcorn*<div><br></div><div>(this message contains a) criticism b) positive thinking and c) a kick up the bum)</div><div>....</div><div><br></div><div>In all seriousness though; you *all* seem to be talking past each other. Which doesn't bode well for us lurkers.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Brutally; I've seen this sort of thing numerous times in all sorts of different communities/forums. It always seems a shame. It's confusing to me, really, why we have to hang up on things like "who is in control" and passing over the website address etc. when the *core problem* is "when are we going to have a meetup".</div>
<div><br></div><div>Had Becky posted with a focus of having a meetup and getting something done I suspect a lot of this bad blood wouldn't exist.</div><div><br></div><div>Becky; as nicely as I can put this - as a lurker with no prior involvement in LLUG, your messages so far have been enthusiastic, interesting and from a certain point sorely lacking in sensitivity. My impression is that you had a vision in mind to get LLUG up and running, and when that floundered a little (which I will get to in a minute) you kicked off Lincoln LUG. </div>
<div><br></div><div>It was interesting (as someone interested in observing interactions online) to see your first few messages - you seemed to have a view in mind to become the driving force in LLUG, but failed quite to pitch it as "hey, lets do something" (and naturally move into control). I personally was slightly put off, as it happens, by your emails to Iain & others where you basically appeared to demand control of the websites & other aspects of the group. Maybe that was a communication issue... you both appeared to feel to have been aggressed first in your communications... maybe you could both mull on that outsider view? </div>
<div><br></div><div>Ignoring the renewed enthusiasm of those guys in relaunching the forums was a major problem for me.. the dead silence and then this new initiative was.. worrying, shall we say.</div><div><br></div><div>
Such things are never going to end well....</div><div><br></div><div>As to the old guard; you definitely should have recognised this enthusiasm and possible miss-communication. And instead of rising to it, tried to work with Becky. Hell, give her some control, she appears to have drive (and if it peters out, how is that any worse than now?). </div>
<div><br></div><div>Of course, you might not like the way it was pitched (I perhaps wouldn't) but the best approach is probably to say "look, you've not pitched this at all well - this is how it looks.... - but here's X, Y, Z permissions - this is a good move forward & we'd love to be involved".</div>
<div><br></div><div>Yes, this has floundered in the past as an active group, and may do again with Becky's drive, but sometimes there things take off. You never know. My successes have never, ever, come from the arena I expected them to.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Everyone seems entrenched, and I am not really sure *why*. I mean, good god, I feel like someone should be cracking your skulls together. :) </div><div><br></div><div>-----------------</div><div><br></div>
<div>But then, I don't think all is lost - so long as we can rewind a little bit and try again? Perhaps with a little more discussion and little less ignoring each other?</div><div><br></div><div>-----------------</div>
<div><br></div><div><b>So when's the meetup?</b> (this is part c, by the way)</div><div><br></div><div>I am just in the process of finishing organising an un-conference for about 50 people with the help of one other person (who is 14, fwiw, and an amazing driving force). I've done this a few times in the online communities I hang out in (from social sites, through technical ones through to Wikipedia) and the best way forward is just to push hard for a first meet. So, from experience (take it or leave it), here is my advice:</div>
<div><br></div><div>- The best way to avoid persistent problems in organising a meet is to simply get on with it. Some people won't be able to make it, which sucks, but never mind, there will be future events. A major part of the stalling of meets is trying to get everyone onboard.</div>
<div><br></div><div>- The next step should be to name a date and a place. It should probably be social (forget the idea of technical meetups from the off, I tried that a few times and they flounder) and involve a pub :) ][unless we have younger members..?] It is much easier to work out what to do next if everyone has a nice drink and is sat in the sun realising that the person they were emailing is real person.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Some food for thought, maybe :)</div><div><br></div><div>Tom</div><div><br></div><div>x</div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 August 2011 01:25, Rebecca Newborough <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bobobex@bobobex.org">bobobex@bobobex.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im">On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 11:56 PM, Chris Marr <<a href="mailto:chris@majicsoft.co.uk">chris@majicsoft.co.uk</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Becky - I hope you don't take what's said here as a personal attack.<br>
<br>
</div>It's a bit hard not to take something as a personal attack when in<br>
fact, you are being personally attacked! :D<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> So if you'll pardon me a little<br>
> cynicism - in my own efforts I tried to gear towards moving the<br>
> community smoothly rather than grabbing it by the scruff of the neck and<br>
> frogmarching it to the firing line.<br>
<br>
</div>I am frog-marching no-one anywhere. I have simply offered an<br>
alternative which people are free to join or not. Their choice, no<br>
pressure.<br>
<div class="im">><br>
> So, maybe you can't please all the people all the time. Maybe I'm the<br>
> most outspoken person here, but I don't think I'm alone.<br>
<br>
</div>Thank you for sharing your thoughts so eloquently.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> At the end of<br>
> the day, if I think someone's doing something wrong, I'll speak up about<br>
> it,<br>
<br>
</div>Please can you explain what it is exactly that I have done wrong?<br>
<br>
I actually think a little perspective is needed here - this is a local<br>
LUG that I have started, not a plan for World domination! :-) All<br>
joking aside, I hope that you can see that I do mean well.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
Becky<br>
<br>
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