<html><head></head><body>Sounds like an interesting discussion but once again I have to send apologies - have another meeting in Derby this evening that I need to get to. I'll try and make it to a meet-up soon. <br><br>Fay <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 17 January 2019 15:46:54 GMT+00:00, Martin via Nottingham <nottingham@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail">Vadim,<br><br>Indeed, good to discuss tonight - see you there!<br><br><br>Note that the demi-god Poettering is on record as considering the<br>decades of proven unix philosophy as something to be ignored and that of<br>maintaining compatibility with other services and systems outside of the<br>Poettering world as something that is of no concern to him. The rest of<br>the world are supposedly to reshape themselves around His System<br>Image... Regardless of how that Image might arbitrarily change.<br><br>Just one example of that for Avahi (+ the Zeroconf/UPnP system) is that<br>multicast messaging can become borked...<br><br>Also note that supposedly, as was told to me upon many an occasion by<br>various MSCE people, that "Microsoft Best Practice" is to have<br>everything on a single unrestricted network... That does seem to be the<br>case considering the workarounds we needed to use a segmented set of<br>networks with Windows servers!...<br><br>(The Linux servers were perfectly fine about whatever networking :-) )<br><br>Fun to be discussed over a few beers ;-)<br><br><br>See ya there,<br><br>Cheers,<br>Martin<br><br><br>MCSE: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_certifications">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_certifications</a><br><br><br>On 17/01/2019 12:41, VM via Nottingham wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;">I'll agree that there is sometimes undesired promiscuity of zeroconf.<br>Still, larger networks should be segmented by workflows and security<br>clearance with gateways proxying service discovery with filters defined<br>by the network admin.<br>Service discovery was not invented by Poettering et al. so I object to<br>putting avahi in the same group as systemd.<br>Something to discuss tonight :)<br><br>On 16 January 2019 16:13:15 GMT, Martin via Nottingham<br><nottingham@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:<br><br> On 15/01/2019 16:54, VM via Nottingham wrote:<br><br> What's wrong with avahi? Poettering's last commit was in 2012! It's<br> modular and doesn't grow like cancer...<br><br><br><br> In decades, I've never needed it nor wanted it. Similarly so for such as<br> Zeroconf and UPnP... Worse still, they can cause great confusion and<br> they can expose or even be the cause of vulnerabilities. There are<br> repeated exploits "in the wild" of anything UPnP...<br><br> In any case: Whoever uses a network without DHCP?! Unless that is you're<br> already an uber-geek and you know that you are deliberately doing some<br> sort of P2P.<br><br> On home networks with few devices and only one user, that trio of<br> silliness might be benign enough. In the workplace with multiple devices<br> desperately offering services promiscuously to anything and everything<br> on a network, they can be hilariously bad for the silliness that then<br> ensues...<br><br> It is far less confusing to have the human aware and in control of what<br> connects to what, and if and when they want it to. That can still be<br> 'simple' for people and without any need of dumbing things down to<br> assumed monkeys.<br><br><br> Cheers,<br> Martin<br><br><br> See:<br><br> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_(software)">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avahi_(software)</a><br><br> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-configuration_networking">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-configuration_networking</a><br><br> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play</a><br><br><br>--<br>vadim@mankevich.co.uk PGP key fingerprint<br>0xC046022A3A91455AF0C9BB2404BF882B1905C772<br>Retrieve from <a href="https://keybase.io/vmankevich">https://keybase.io/vmankevich</a><br><br>"When we take away the right to figure out if something bad is going on<br>in our computers, the inevitable consequence is that bad things will<br>happen in our computers." (Cory Doctorow)<br></blockquote><br><br></pre></blockquote></div><br>-- <br>Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.</body></html>