[Sussex] A rant on using different distributions

[Steve Dobson]

Matt

On Tue, Sep 27, 2005 at 02:49:14PM -0400, Matthew Macdonald-Wallace wrote:
> Paul Tansom wrote:
> >Re-reading this I guess the Debian message could have added the words
> >"please install it", but I guess that's obvious to most ;) Additionally,
> >does the Gentoo error tell me what to do if I don't want to uninstall
> >package x? (other than imply not installing the new package!).
> 
> My complaint here is that if Gentoo doesn't want to install something, 
> it gives you the reason why, i.e. if you install something like postfix, 
> it tells you that you need to replace the default "dummy" smtp server 
> ssmtp.  Debian, in my experience, just tells you that it can't be 
> installed - no reason why, or how to correct it.

As I have already said Debian does tell you why if there are versioning
problems - they maybe a bit cryptic but they do explain it once you 
understand Debian's versioning system.

<snip>
> I've done an update so that all packages are sourced from Debian and 
> have ensured that that it is no-longer installing from the DSL packages. 
>  I still have these issues.  With Gentoo, yes, I expect to be able to 
> do exactly that, but that's not how gentoo works.  In gentoo, I can 
> install individual packages from different sources and package hacks 
> based on the package.keywords file.  Is this possible in Debian? I 
> really don't know.  I also don't have the time to learn.

This will *NOT* replace all your packages.  Only those to which have a
newer version in the new archive *AND* do not have any new dependencies.

To get those with with new dependencies use "dist-upgrade".  But even this
will not re-install where the package versions are the same (see the
--reinstall flag in the apt-get manpage).  Down grading is possible, but
not a job I'd recommend to a new comer to Debian - it is better to 
reinstall (which I see from elsewhere you are doing).

> DSL seemed to give me the opportunity to run a distro that I had been 
> recommended to by many people (including the esteemed Mr Dobson) and had 
> always wanted to try.  It was also incredibly small and seemed to 
> include every thing I needed for my day-to-day tasks.

I don't remember recommending, I may have mentioned it, but I haven't really
played with it.

> it is only as I have started to install programs and dependencies that 
> are not in the DSL packages and moved from DSL to Debian sources that I 
> have encountered these problems.

So you're mixing your spirits (see my post to Geoff).  Here lies dragons
and I am not surprised that you've had problems.

> As I have said, it may well be me, but Gentoo, SuSE and all of the other 
> distro's I've tried (including FC2, Slackware and Redhat 6) seem to 
> "Just Work"(tm), but for me, debian doesn't.

But you have just said that you are mixing two distros together (DSL and
Debian).  That's like taking a Ford motor part and installing it onto your
Toyota - while they are both cars and some parts are interchangeable - like
the radios, not all components are compatible.

> I will taken Steve's advice, back everything up and try a net-install of 
> Debian, and I'll report back.  I'm not afraid to try new things, I just 
> get frustrated when things don't do what they give the impression the 
> will do, and then don't provide error messages that I believe to be helpful.

It is now clear to me that your problems came from too little knowledge.
You know enough to be dangerous.  I am aways aware of that fact when I
try something new.  I am always asking myself "Am I trying to do something
that is inappropriate for this?"

In Gentoo you compile - so you don't have the same dependency problems 
that a binary (any binary) distribution has.  When compiling the only
dependency issues is that of the API.  But once compiled the binaries
have additional version information included that must be allowed for.

Steve
-- 
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