[SWLUG] (no subject)

Wed Apr 16 03:54:53 UTC 2003

On Tue, Apr 15, 2003 at 10:15:21PM +0100, Rhys Sage wrote:
> I sometimes use Yahoo webmail and sometimes use a bogus account
> via IE as I am right now.

Urgh. Your mailer is now sending a) HTML e-mail which is pointless and
hated, and b) the text part doesn't follow conventions for prefixing
quoted parts with > or line wrapping at ~80 characters. Have a good poke
around in the preferences and turn off HTML and turn on line wrapping.
=)

> I'm amazed because the people there all say "but it's you doing
> something wrong". Since when? My Windows boxes will open each
> others files (on the drives and folder where sharing is permitted)
> so I don't understand why SME won't play ball. They had me play
> with netbuei but that didn't do much except that it made Persius
> lose Persius from Network Neighbourhood. Zeus didn't magically
> appear. Looks to me like SME has been poorly designed if I've got
> to muck about this much. Whatever happened to intuitive design?

Your main problem is probably not knowing this: Linux can only support
Windows-style file sharing over a working IP network. Windows can
support it over IP, IPX and NetBEUI by highly antisocial use of stupid
broadcasting traffic. If you bring Windows machines together on a
network they sit and cry at each other in every language they can speak
until they find out who's playing mother on the network and telling
everyone who they are and who else is nearby. It's ridiculous.

To get a Windows machines that can see each other and the Linux machine,
you need these things (in order):
 1. a working physical network (ping is not the correct tool to test
   this, because it relies on higher up things) and a computer that can
   talk to it
 2. a working IP network
 3. a working Samba daemon running on the Linux machine

In Windows, these things are all visible seperately in the Network part
of Control Panel. Number 1 is "Bla Bla Nameless Network Card", number 2
is "TCP/IP for Bla Bla...", and 3 is a combination of "Client for
Microsoft Networks" and "File and Printer Sharing". Microsoft name these
'Adapter', 'Protocol', 'Client' and 'Service', respectively. The same
things exist on Linux. The adapter is getting the right module loaded in
the kernel, the protocol is built in but to get it working, you just
tell it the address to use, and the server for Windows clients is Samba.

If SME Linux is in any way qualified to be some kind of easy out-of the
box system, it should let you achieve the other two very easily if the
first is true. You build a house of cards not by emptying the deck out
onto the table, then finding the top one isn't there, but by stacking
up the bottom level, then the next, then the next. Networking is also
layered in this way.

1. Disclaimer: Because I really don't know if there is actually a
physical networking problem (ping and windows file sharing are truly
useless for debugging this layer of the proceedings) then the following
procedure assumes the hardware of your LAN is working and that the Linux
machine can see its network card. Achieve this first, and *then* try and
get the silly Windows networking stuff going. I'd offer more help but
it really does sound like you just missed the right module to load in
the installer, and knowing nothing about SME Linux I can't tell you how
to go back and fix that.

NB: If you are using Windows connection sharing, this section doesn't
quite apply and you should've told us much sooner. Proceeding anyway...

2. Go to your Windows machines and remove the TCP/IP protocol from both
their networking cards. If you're not using any games on your LAN that
use DirectPlay, remove IPX too, and in general, remove NetBEUI
because it stinks. This may also require rebooting 12 times in
general Windows style, may also require removing "File and Printer
Sharing Service" and "Client for Microsoft Networking" etc, and will
almost certainly stop Network Neighbourhood working for the moment.

If SME Linux has given itself an IP address, and is running a DHCP
server for your lan (check this in documentation or something) then
go and add TCP/IP back on each Windows machine, and they should
miraculously get IPs handed from the Linux machine's DHCP server.
You should be able to see the IP address of the Windows machines
with things like ipconfig, and the address of the Linux box with
ifconfig, and be able to ping between them.

If SME is not running a DHCP server you just need to give your machines
IP addresses. To avoid clashes with real internet IP addresses, there
are a few ranges of so-called "private IPs" which you can use within
your LAN without fear of routing conflicts. A popular set of these
with home networks is 192.168.1.*. For *, any number between 1 and 254
is fine. Set a different number to each of your machines, and set the
netmask to 255.255.255.0.

For example, 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2. If you change other parts
of the address, or use a different netmask, the machines won't know
they can talk to each other directly over the LAN. Once you've given
out addresses you should be able to ping. Not knowing anything about
SME Linux I don't know how you'd set the IPs. Editing
/etc/network/interfaces does it on Debian, and a similar file exists on
RedHat I believe.

If this works, small celebration is in order, and you can proceed on
to...

3. Windows nonsense. Adding Client for Microsoft Networking back to the
Windows machines will get them happily broadcasting away to each other
to establish who they are and whatever. Now they're doing this over IP,
you can get Linux in on the game too, using Samba. SME Linux should give
you some easy way to set Samba going, and set a name for the system. Set
all the machines workgroup name to the same, and they should all start
talking and you should see your Linux machine on the network.

If SME Linux hasn't sorted Samba out for you, you need to go and edit
/etc/samba/smb.conf (nano or pico are good editors, Ctrl+X exits and
prompts you to save!). Setting 'workgroup' and 'netbios name' should let
it at least appear. If you need to edit this file you will probably need
to restart Samba to let it know about the changes. This is, again,
dependent upon SME Linux about which I know nothing.

By default Samba will probably share the home directory of the
users on the Linux machine as \\linuxmachine\user, and the password is
the user's linux password. There are some possible potholes here, but if
you can at least get it to say "Access Denied" then you have made
massive progress.

Anyway, I've typed enough for 5am, but please do believe me when I say
that this stuff really works and many of us have working networks with
mixed Windows and Linux machines talking happily.

> PC World just happened to be the only place in Swansea that had the
> bits I wanted. Other places said "we should be having them on x-day"
> but that always means "not a snowflake's chance and when we've worn
> you down waiting for it not to appear, you're going to buy what we've
> got". Hence I chose the cheapest available option. A trip to Cardiff
> would have driven the price up too high to make the savings worthwhile. 

You need to be introduced to the joys of 24 hour shopping on-line from
the likes of Dabs. www.dabs.com. Mmmm. Cheap. Next day delivery. 24 hour
warehouse. Choose your product at 7pm, wake up and you have it. I've
actually ordered a DVD drive at close to 11pm and still had it the next
day. Annoyingly they stopped taking Switch for a while (I have no credit
cards) but they seem to be back now. Also before I had Switch they
accepted my Solo card too, but I don't know whether that was
intentional. Worth a try. =)

> Yours,
> 
> Rhys

Regards,
Rob