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Tony Pursell wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid41EFD355.26893.433CC0@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On 19 Jan 2005 at 23:43, Adam Rykala wrote:
I'm with you all the way, Adam. I want to see Linux succeed. Its just that
I think that the prevailing opinion that Hugh should do his own install is not
the way forward, if Linux is to break through into wider PC use. We have
to look for what it is that attracts ordinary, non-techie, users and one thing
is that it come pre-installed and ready to run. If Hugh found a PC with, for
instance, Ubuntu pre-installed, he would then, for instance, find he has a
fully specced office suite in the form of OpenOffice.org, instead of Works,
which is about the best you will get free on a new Windows PC, or forking
out £hundreds for MS Office.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
But the other side of the coin is learning how to install is also a
valuable experience. SuSe install's are the proverbial piece of, and
Mandrake isn't that far behind either. Xandros and Linspire are largely
one click, I've heard glowing respect for Ubuntu and Knoppis as well,
particularly with hardware detection.... <br>
<br>
Don't forget that many pc users haven't installed Windows often
either.... It comes preinstalled. So while I accept the beauty of
preinstalled Linux on a machine, its quite informative to roll up your
sleeves and get the install going.<br>
<br>
Particularly when a browsing of the Linux mags in Smiths in Cardiff
give you a wide degree of choice. I got Suse 9.1 Pro from Linux Mag in
December on DVD (in fact, for some reason there were two dvd's in my
issue, so me and my wife have a dvd each) - recently I've seen Mandrake
10.1 final, Fedora Core 3, Ubuntu, Knoppix................ Not bad for
a £5.....<br>
<br>
Debian in that respect isn't the best choice in that department, its
too much like jumping in at the deep end for my liking - particularly
for a newbie. If someone isn't interested in running their own servers,
and just want something "that works" - I'd look at Ubuntu, Xandros or
even Mandrake before Debian...... Before anyone gangs up on me for
sacrilege (;-) ) I'm just saying that the beauty and choice of Linux is
the ability to choose the horse for the course.....<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid41EFD355.26893.433CC0@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">In my Suse install I double click on a RPM and install.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Perhaps other distros should take note.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Agreed - although as I recall MDK does similar with URPMI. Though I
must admit part of me is uneasy at the idea of just click a file to
install it. Splitting off the process of software install to tools such
as YaST or Urpmi means splitting off the process whereas people double
click files "just to see what happens"... it, together with the idea of
running as a restricted user, would minimise the ease with which
malware could get a hold...<br>
<br>
I've seen too many people complain "xxx isn't available" when if they
search their software install tool, it's there. On some of the SuSe
forums it's been very noticable.... I guess it's from the Windows world
where people expect that method to install software... Whether its
Synaptic, YaST, Urpmi or C'n'R - I think it makes more sense to split
off software installation that way....<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid41EFD355.26893.433CC0@localhost" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If one app is making you shy away from Linux, then perhaps Linux isn't
for you... but there's a long way between that and "isn't ready for
anyone".
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Missing TaxCalc & Money wouldn't cause me a problem as I would
always have the know how to dual boot. I give these as a examples of
good value commercial software that Linux cannot attract with a small
user base.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Apart from the fact that Linux isn't so much a small user base, its
more an issue of niche software (TaxCalc anyway) - Both apps can be
replicated by spreadsheet design (to a point) and they'll come. After
all, the one thing that held me off for a while was good vector design
software, and that is now moot with SodiPodi, Inkscape and OODraw.....<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid41EFD355.26893.433CC0@localhost" type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">As I said it isn't a personal flame, I just despair of XP themes for
KDE or Gnome, calls for an XP start menu, OS X style Docks etc. What I
like about Linux is the power. The shell is a godsend. When my wife
finished installing her SuSe box she started using it, and then
realised she didn't have a web editor installed she liked. SO while
she was working i ssh'ed in, started Yast and installed Quanta and
Mozilla Composer.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
I'm not taking this at all personally. I enjoy a robust discussion and accept
that I will get strong opinions back if I am a bit provocative.
</pre>
</blockquote>
;-)<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid41EFD355.26893.433CC0@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">She's now (as both of us) on KDE 3.4 beta 1.....
I'm not flaming you, or anyone here. Its just my view. I started on 8
bit micro's, went to CP/M and then used Unix in a IT environment, then
heading onto Win 3.11/WfWG and then NT Server admin. I used to love my
X box with CDE in work, and preferred using that to any Win box, even
when it was in mono only ;)
The most telling indicator for me was my wife, who isn't particular
techy and uses her pc as a tool. When her XP machine went ****up last
year she was using my Linux box for a month. She loved it so much that
last week, when her XP install just keeled over and died (as it did on
a bi-monthly basis without fail - and it wasn't spyware - she's a good
admin of her own box and has no truck with Bonzi Buddy's, Smiley
Central and the like - in fact SC launches her into a tirade of cusses
;-) ) she said "**** IT" and grabbed my SuSe DVD, and is now happily
using Quanta, OpenOffice and Firefox on her machine and in her own
words "Why didn't I do this years ago"?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->You're experience in winning you wife over is great. I'm fed up with my
Win 98 falling over. So that's what has made me have a go. But we are
both techies with lots of history. (My Unix goes back to the time in the
1980s when there were no PCs.) So we can support others who want to
try Linux. Would your wife have gone that way on her own?
</pre>
</blockquote>
As comfortable as re-installing Windows on her own. Both OS's can throw
a curve ball with respects to hardware. Its largely a myth that a Linux
install is "hard" compared to Windows. Xandros, Linspire, Suse,
Mandrake, Ubuntu, Knoppix all have pretty clear installs. When I
swopped from MDk to Suse this year the one thing that impressed me was
the ease of install......<br>
<br>
The one thing Linux installs have over any win install is this... slip
your Windows cd in and install. Wheres your apps? Its time to breal
open all the other cd's and bung on your Word Processor, Spreadsheet
etc. With any standard Linux install these days those apps are ready
and waiting there.<br>
<br>
And Windows installs are no cakewalk, I've seen plenty of cruddy
installs, misconfigured and missing hardware. The only difference is
hardware support. Put a Linux install on a pc with supported hardware,
and you're on equal billing with any Windows install for hardware...<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid41EFD355.26893.433CC0@localhost" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""></pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">We're currently in the process of ruining my degree (exam week in
cf.ac.uk ;-) ) by discovering the joys of our own Tetrinet server. I
wonder if F/OSS has ever been quoted in divorce papers? ;-)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Good luck in your exams.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
Ta! ;-)<br>
<br>
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<td valign="top"><font size="2"><em>Adam Rykala</em>
<br>
<em><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:adam@rykala.demon.co.uk">adam@rykala.demon.co.uk</a></em>
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<td valign="bottom"><font size="2"><i>I'm rated PG-34!!
<br>
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