<DIV>Hi Jono & Trog</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Trog, I am sorry but you have lost me, I am not that advanced yet!</DIV>
<DIV>Jono thanks for the offer, unfortunately I am unable to be there Wednesday because of prior arrangement, I joined the LUG a bit late to alter things. But rest assured that I am definitly a Linux fan and will do my level best to come to future meetings!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I will have a go at C++ as it seems pretty close to what I know so my learning curve is not too steep. And from what you say Qt and kDevelop will satisfy my coding curiosity and interest.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As far as working with Linux command line what sort of skills do I need to learn?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Mo<BR><BR><B><I>Jono Bacon <jonobacon@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Hi Mo,<BR><BR>If you want to write C++ apps, you will need to use a<BR>C++ compiler (g++ from the gcc suite) and you will<BR>probably want to learn some build tools such as<BR>automake and autoconf - these tools manage which<BR>source code files are built in which order by the<BR>compiler and are used by most open source projects.<BR><BR>In terms of actually coding, usually you will edit<BR>your source code files and then use the compile to<BR>convert this file into a runnable program. When you<BR>use lots of source files you usually use the compiler<BR>to convert each file into what is called 'object code<BR>(a .o file) and then these object code files are stuck<BR>together by a tool called a linker to form your final<BR>program.<BR><BR>If you use KDevelop, much of this underlying process<BR>is hidden from you. KDevelop will let you create a new<BR>project and compile it and then
edit the code it has<BR>generated. It is certainly a helpful tool and works<BR>very well.<BR><BR>If you can make it down to the LUG meet on wednesday<BR>we can discuss it face to face in more detail - I will<BR>also be bringing my laptop, so I can show you some Qt<BR>stuff.<BR><BR>Jono<BR><BR>--- Mo Awkati <MAWKATI@YAHOO.CO.UK>wrote:<BR>> Hi<BR>> <BR>> Thanks James and Jono<BR>> <BR>> Your advice is most helpful. I don't intend to do<BR>> web programming so this rules out the likes of<BR>> Python, PERL etc. My aim is to do apps for Linux.<BR>> Therefore I will go with C++. I have done some<BR>> programming with VB6 and can get my head around<BR>> variables, loops, etc. and I am quite good a picking<BR>> info from books, tutorials etc. Where I think I will<BR>> get stuck is in getting to know how to code and make<BR>> use of some of the advanced functions in C++. <BR>> <BR>> As far as programming Linux itself, do I need that<BR>>
expertise? What I mean is if I want to trouble shoot<BR>> a hardware configuration problem, or if I want to<BR>> tweak functionalities will I need to know C? <BR>> Another angle is that for me to understand and use<BR>> the command line and get the most out of Linux do I<BR>> need to know C? Or is it just a case of getting to<BR>> know the command line syntax?<BR>> <BR>> Cheers<BR>> <BR>> Mo<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Jono Bacon <JONOBACON@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>> Heya,<BR>> <BR>> Great well reasoned response James.<BR>> <BR>> I think the choice of language is largely dependent<BR>> on<BR>> what you want to do and how much you know. If you<BR>> are<BR>> new to programming, I recommend that you don't go<BR>> feet<BR>> first at C or C++. You can do, and if you are up for<BR>> the challenge it can be worthwhile, but for a<BR>> beginner<BR>> they are quite heavy going. Python is certainly a<BR>> popular choice as a
higher level language and you<BR>> can<BR>> find out more about Python from Aq.<BR>> <BR>> >From my understanding, you are interested in<BR>> writing<BR>> KDE and Qt apps. Firstly, I can wholehearted<BR>> recommend<BR>> Qt as a GUI toolkit, and KDE does add some useful<BR>> extensions that merge your application into the KDE<BR>> desktop. If this is the route you want to take, C++<BR>> is<BR>> the language of choice. Like James said, C and C++<BR>> are<BR>> quite similar but very different. I don't recommend<BR>> learning C and then C++ second as you will have to<BR>> "unlearn" a lot of stuff. If Qt/KDE apps are your<BR>> aim,<BR>> C++ is a good starting block as Qt and KDE are coded<BR>> in C++ (although there are some other bindings fore<BR>> languages, C++ is by far the most commonly used and<BR>> officially supported language).<BR>> <BR>> If you want to do web programming, there are a<BR>> number<BR>>
of options. I recommend PHP as it is simple and<BR>> productive and works very well. Python can also be<BR>> used, as can Perl and countless others.<BR>> <BR>> There are plenty of tutorials out there for all of<BR>> these languages. Good luck.<BR>> <BR>> Jono<BR>> <BR>> --- James Turner wrote:<BR>> > On Sat, 13 Dec 2003, Mo Awkati wrote:<BR>> > <BR>> > > Hi Folk<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Before I go and spend my hard earned money at<BR>> > Waterstones on a book <BR>> > > to read over Xmas, I could with some advice<BR>> > please.<BR>> > ><BR>> > > I want to start learning to programme under<BR>> Linux.<BR>> > They way I <BR>> > > understand it is that if I want to programme<BR>> Linux<BR>> > itself so that it <BR>> > > runs tasks, then I need to know C?<BR>> > <BR>> > Not necessarily - there are lots of programming<BR>> > languages
available on <BR>> > Linux. C is still the prefered language for<BR>> writing<BR>> > low-level code such as <BR>> > the kernel or server applications, but you may<BR>> find<BR>> > a higher level <BR>> > language less heavy going and more productive. Do<BR>> > you have any previous <BR>> > programming experience?<BR>> > <BR>> > (cue recommendations by the various language<BR>> > advocates on the list)<BR>> > <BR>> > > I got a book out of the library <BR>> > > called Programming Linux in 24 Hours (in my case<BR>> > 12 months) by SAMS. <BR>> > > This particular book uses Red Hat. From my very<BR>> > little knowledge it uses <BR>> > > gcc. Is this a Gentoo thing?<BR>> > <BR>> > gcc stands for GNU Compiler Collection, a set of<BR>> > compilers including C, <BR>> > C++, Objective C, ADA, Fortran, Java, etc. The<BR>> term<BR>> > is also
used to refer <BR>> > specifically to the GNU C Compiler, which is<BR>> invoked<BR>> > using the command <BR>> > gcc. The GNU Compiler Collection should be<BR>> available<BR>> > for most/all Linux <BR>> > distributions.<BR>> > <BR>> > > Do I need to look for another book if I use KDE<BR>> as<BR>> > I will probably <BR>> > > migrate to SUSE?<BR>> > <BR>> > Well, does "Programming Linux in 24 Hours" include<BR>> > material on KDE at a <BR>> > level you find understandable, in conjunction with<BR>> a<BR>> > programming language <BR>> > you would like to learn/use? For KDE development<BR>> it<BR>> > shouldn't matter what <BR>> > distro you use.<BR>> > <BR>> > > I think I am clear that if I want to creat<BR>> > applications that will run <BR>> > > under Linux I can use KDevelop and Qt.For this I<BR>> > will need to learn to
<BR>> > > programme with C++.<BR>> > <BR>> > You may like to have a go at developing with Qt<BR>> > Designer, which lets you <BR>> > implement the user interface using a fairly<BR>> > streightforward "point and <BR>> > click" interface, then add C++ code to turn it<BR>> into<BR>> > a working application.<BR>> > <BR>> > > Top save myself the headache, I know that C and<BR>> > C++ are related but <BR>> > > there are differences, do I need to learn both C<BR>> > and C++?<BR>> > <BR>> > C++ was originally a set of extensions to C,<BR>> > introduced primarily to <BR>> > provide better support for object oriented<BR>> > programming (OOP). The language <BR>> > also introduced several other non-OOP features,<BR>> many<BR>> > of which were later <BR>> > added to C.<BR>> > <BR>> > Which of these you learn (if any) depends on what<BR>> >
sort of programming you <BR>> > would like to do. The object-oriented features of<BR>> > C++ make it the more <BR>> > suitable for writing GUI applications such as<BR>> those<BR>> > commonly found on KDE <BR>> > or GNOME desktops, while C may be more appropriate<BR>> > for writing <BR>> > certain low-level utilities, tools or contributing<BR>> > to the kernel.<BR>> > <BR>> > With several minor exceptions, all the features of<BR>> C<BR>> > are also available in <BR>> > C++, so if you have cause to learn C first you can<BR>> > then continue to C++ <BR>> > more easily. However, neither are particularly<BR>> easy<BR>> > "first languages" if <BR>> > you're just starting to learn how to program.<BR>> > <BR>> > I also suggest taking a look at Python, or (if<BR>> > you're interested in <BR>> > server-side web programming) PHP.<BR>> > <BR>> > Does
anyone else on the list have any suggestions?<BR>> > <BR>> > James<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > _______________________________________________<BR>> > Wolves LUG mailing list<BR>> > Homepage: http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/<BR>> > Mailing list: Wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk<BR>> > Mailing list home:<BR>> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wolves<BR>> <BR>> =====<BR>> Jono Bacon - http://www.jonobacon.org/<BR>> Professional Writer / Web Developer / Musician<BR>> <BR>> __________________________________<BR>> Do you Yahoo!?<BR>> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.<BR>> http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>> <BR>> _______________________________________________<BR>> Wolves LUG mailing list<BR>> Homepage: http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/<BR>> Mailing list: Wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk<BR>> Mailing list home:<BR>> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wolves<BR>> <BR>>
---------------------------------<BR>> BT Yahoo! Broadband - Save £80 when you order<BR>> online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003.<BR>> The way the internet was meant to be. ><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>> Wolves LUG mailing list<BR>> Homepage: http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/<BR>> Mailing list: Wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk<BR>> Mailing list home: http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wolves<BR><BR>=====<BR>Jono Bacon - http://www.jonobacon.org/<BR>Professional Writer / Web Developer / Musician<BR><BR>__________________________________<BR>Do you Yahoo!?<BR>New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Wolves LUG mailing list<BR>Homepage: http://www.wolveslug.org.uk/<BR>Mailing list: Wolves@mailman.lug.org.uk<BR>Mailing list home: http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/wolves</BLOCKQUOTE><p><hr size=1><font face="Arial" size="2"> <a
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