From wilp4a at hotmail.co.uk Sat Apr 2 10:49:08 2011 From: wilp4a at hotmail.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2011 10:49:08 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] that steve ballmer egg game Message-ID: http://www.egg-attack.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark_kh at tiscali.co.uk Sun Apr 3 16:19:13 2011 From: mark_kh at tiscali.co.uk (mark_kh at tiscali.co.uk) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 16:19:13 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Oddity when saving bookmarks Message-ID: <23231493.2618131301847081853.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Last Thursday, I took my ASUS 901 along to the Bear & Billet where kindly coves installed Ubuntu in place of the propriety operating system. That bit went fine and the machine is purring away happily with this system, so thanks all. However, just before I left the house on Thursday, I opened Firefox->Library and exported my bookmarks to an HTML file on my USB stick (I didn't use the 'Backup' option). When I returned home, I opened the new, blank copy of Firefox and imported the file labelled Bookmarks.html, only to discover that I had loaded all of the bookmarked locations from my wife's laptop. How? The file was date-stamped Thursday 18.30, so it is the correct date and time. So, how can it be from a different computer? True, they are both on the same router (mine via the wi-fi and hers via cable) but I still cannot see how my copy of Firefox could possible have saved her bookmarks. What is possibly significant - or maybe more deeply puzzling - is that the list of bookmarked sites was not up to date, but reflects a list that is probably a year or two old. Does anyone have any idea what's going on? Mark From wilp4a at hotmail.co.uk Sun Apr 3 16:33:12 2011 From: wilp4a at hotmail.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2011 16:33:12 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Oddity when saving bookmarks In-Reply-To: <23231493.2618131301847081853.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> References: <23231493.2618131301847081853.JavaMail.defaultUser@defaultHost> Message-ID: Not sure how to fix this, but for the future, I suggest you grab and install a firefox plugin called "xmarks". In firefox - Tools > Add Ons, then click on the "Get Add Ons" tab and search for xmarks. It'll ask you to set up an account. Nothing insidious. It's no worse than setting up an email account. What it does is saves online your bookmarks and passwords. It means if you login to a load of sites, like facebook, Linux Format website, etc, you don't need to remember your bookmarks or passwords when you've just done a reinstall. Every time you change a bookmark, it prompts you when you close firefox to update the bookmarks. It's really handy. Especially if you want to transfer bookmarks from one machine to another. Cheers Paul > Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2011 17:11:21 +0100 > From: mark_kh at tiscali.co.uk > To: chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > Subject: [Chester LUG] Oddity when saving bookmarks > > Last Thursday, I took my ASUS 901 along to the Bear & Billet where kindly coves > installed Ubuntu in place of the propriety operating system. That bit went > fine and the machine is purring away happily with this system, so thanks all. > > > However, just before I left the house on Thursday, I opened Firefox->Library > and exported my bookmarks to an HTML file on my USB stick (I didn't use the > 'Backup' option). When I returned home, I opened the new, blank copy of Firefox > and imported the file labelled Bookmarks.html, only to discover that I had > loaded all of the bookmarked locations from my wife's laptop. How? The file was > date-stamped Thursday 18.30, so it is the correct date and time. So, how can it > be from a different computer? True, they are both on the same router (mine via > the wi-fi and hers via cable) but I still cannot see how my copy of Firefox > could possible have saved her bookmarks. What is possibly significant - or > maybe more deeply puzzling - is that the list of bookmarked sites was not up to > date, but reflects a list that is probably a year or two old. > > Does anyone have > any idea what's going on? > > Mark > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.james.burns at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 17:52:34 2011 From: stuart.james.burns at gmail.com (Stuart Burns) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 17:52:34 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language Message-ID: Hi Everyone, I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some advice re: programming languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at last) I am looking to learn a language that can be used for both web development as well as locally on the PC. Ideally Object Orientated and beginner friendly (whilst appreciating that although I understand objects, I am very much raw at any level above that.) That would suggest Java but Java performance, from what I read is pretty lackluster. Oh and lastly, mainstream and RAD capable :) If anyone can think of an language that fulfill those criteria, i'm interested. Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From smedley358 at btinternet.com Mon Apr 4 20:01:03 2011 From: smedley358 at btinternet.com (Richard Smedley) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:01:03 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: > I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some advice re: programming > languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at last) I am looking > to learn a language that can be used for both web development as well as > locally on the PC. 1. JavaScript. No, seriously, it is a proper language. Take a look at: http://eloquentjavascript.net/ (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) 2. Clojure Lisp on the JVM, there's a group meets at MadLab to help out :) > Ideally Object Orientated and beginner friendly (whilst > appreciating that although I understand objects, I am very much raw at any > level above that.) That would suggest Java but Java performance, from what I > read is pretty lackluster. > Oh and lastly, mainstream and RAD capable :) 3. Python Can't get much more mainstream nowadays :-) All the good things they say about it are true. - Richard (currently re-reading K&R) [See, I resisted suggesting Io, Haskell, Squeak or Scala, I *can* do mainstream when I try ;)] From shop at open-t.co.uk Mon Apr 4 20:38:21 2011 From: shop at open-t.co.uk (Sebastian Arcus) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:38:21 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D9A2A60.2050804@open-t.co.uk> On 04/04/2011 06:44 PM, Stuart Burns wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some advice re: > programming languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at > last) I am looking to learn a language that can be used for both web > development as well as locally on the PC. Ideally Object Orientated and > beginner friendly (whilst appreciating that although I understand > objects, I am very much raw at any level above that.) That would suggest > Java but Java performance, from what I read is pretty lackluster. > > Oh and lastly, mainstream and RAD capable :) > > If anyone can think of an language that fulfill those criteria, i'm > interested. How about useful from the point of view of employability? Is that important in the context, or not? There are some interesting languages out there, but only a small number of them are used widely enough to make it likely that you will find a job where you get a chance to use it. That is of course, if that matters to you. Also, is wide support, large body of documentation and varied library support important? For me, that's another important factor when looking at a language. If it has libraries available for all sorts of things, from accessing esoteric hardware peripherals, to creating complex GUI's - it means you can do more with it in more contexts on more platforms. Just thinking out loud. Sebastian > > Stu > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester From shop at open-t.co.uk Mon Apr 4 20:43:06 2011 From: shop at open-t.co.uk (Sebastian Arcus) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:43:06 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> Message-ID: <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: > On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some advice re: programming >> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at last) I am looking >> to learn a language that can be used for both web development as well as >> locally on the PC. > > 1. JavaScript. > No, seriously, it is a proper language. > Take a look at: > http://eloquentjavascript.net/ > (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's though. Sebastian From stuart.james.burns at gmail.com Mon Apr 4 20:50:53 2011 From: stuart.james.burns at gmail.com (Stuart Burns) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 20:50:53 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> Message-ID: I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus wrote: > > > On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: > >> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >> >>> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some advice re: >>> programming >>> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at last) I am >>> looking >>> to learn a language that can be used for both web development as well as >>> locally on the PC. >>> >> >> 1. JavaScript. >> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >> Take a look at: >> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >> > > > In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps would be the > XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what Firefox and Thunderbird is built > on. You program the interface in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite > easy to understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite > interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few months ago > when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of a major PITA - so I > started looking elsewhere. I liked most everything else though. It only has > access to SQLite databases at the moment, but there was talk of implementing > an ODBC driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's > though. > > Sebastian > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shop at open-t.co.uk Mon Apr 4 21:20:57 2011 From: shop at open-t.co.uk (Sebastian Arcus) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2011 21:20:57 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D9A345C.7030204@open-t.co.uk> On 04/04/2011 09:42 PM, Stuart Burns wrote: > I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) > > TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My day > job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to do any > programming (well powershell for vmware automation but thats about it) I > can hack perl together if I need to. > > I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for a > website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) It seems to me that the major trend in webdesign are CMS's - something like Joomla, Wordpress and Drupal (which seem to be three of the most popular) will allow you to get a long way in designing most type of websites. Of course, there is no replacement for really understanding PHP, Perl, CSS, Javascript (or even ASP, if you have to). But it seems to be the most productive way to get websites of various forms, shapes and complexity going in a reasonable time frame. Sebastian From mrcrilly at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 07:53:35 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 07:53:35 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: > I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) > > TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My day > job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to do any > programming (well powershell for vmware automation but thats about it) > I can hack perl together if I need to. > > I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for a > website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) > > > > On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus > wrote: > > > > On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: > > On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: > > I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some > advice re: programming > languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at > last) I am looking > to learn a language that can be used for both web > development as well as > locally on the PC. > > > 1. JavaScript. > No, seriously, it is a proper language. > Take a look at: > http://eloquentjavascript.net/ > (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) > > > > In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps would > be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what Firefox and > Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface in XUL (which > is a mark-up language, quite easy to understand), and the logic in > Javascript. I found it all quite interesting, and the > multiplatform aspect helps. However, few months ago when I tried > it, the printing feature was a bit of a major PITA - so I started > looking elsewhere. I liked most everything else though. It only > has access to SQLite databases at the moment, but there was talk > of implementing an ODBC driver which would allow connections to a > lot of other RDBMS's though. > > Sebastian > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From les.pritchard at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 09:15:28 2011 From: les.pritchard at gmail.com (Les Pritchard) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 09:15:28 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Stuart, Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large scale enterprise web applications. It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO in general things like Javadoc are great. Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java & PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't see anything else that would be capable of what I require. If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak ( http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an interview with the creator by Dan. My thoughts anyway! Les On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly wrote: > Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. > > > On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: > > I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) > > TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My day job > is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to do any programming > (well powershell for vmware automation but thats about it) I can hack perl > together if I need to. > > I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for a > website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) > > > > On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus wrote: > >> >> >> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: >> >>> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >>> >>>> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some advice re: >>>> programming >>>> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands (at last) I am >>>> looking >>>> to learn a language that can be used for both web development as well >>>> as >>>> locally on the PC. >>>> >>> >>> 1. JavaScript. >>> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >>> Take a look at: >>> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >>> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >>> >> >> >> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps would be the >> XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what Firefox and Thunderbird is built >> on. You program the interface in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite >> easy to understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite >> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few months ago >> when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of a major PITA - so I >> started looking elsewhere. I liked most everything else though. It only has >> access to SQLite databases at the moment, but there was talk of implementing >> an ODBC driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's >> though. >> >> Sebastian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing listChester at mailman.lug.org.ukhttps://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From biglynchy at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 11:36:31 2011 From: biglynchy at gmail.com (Dan Lynch) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 11:36:31 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Creative Commons Gig Message-ID: Hi folks, Forgive this completely non-Linux-related email but I'm doing a Creative Commons music gig on *April 24th (8pm)* at *The Zanzibar* in Liverpool and I thought some of you may be interested. It's Free Culture right? Fit's with open source. We have 3 great CC bands: - I Am Not Lefthanded - Irish indie band with a massive future. Expect to see a lot of them this year. - 20lb Sounds - Liverpool rock band with some bearded idiot on the guitar (me). - Rob Warren - Really good singer songwriter coming up from London, also has a bright future. If you want to hear the artists there's a *free EP on the website *. Download it and see for yourself how good the line up is. There'll also be live Internet link ups and streams for those around the world who can't make it in person. DJs, drinks, Twitter/Identi.ca walls and much more to keep you entertained. It's only a fiver and all are welcome. Tickets are available from the website via Google Checkout or you can ping me if you'd like to make alternative arrangements. All details can be found at - http://ratholeradio.org/gig Please forward this to anyone you think may be interested. I'll let you get back to Linux business now ;) Thanks, Dan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dh at iucr.org Tue Apr 5 11:38:12 2011 From: dh at iucr.org (David Holden) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 11:38:12 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever *couch* python *couch*. I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. Cheers, Dave. On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: > Hi Stuart, > > Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for > Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must > add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build > anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large > scale enterprise web applications. > > It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be > faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus > compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly > typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may > need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. > > The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do > so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to > get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO > in general things like Javadoc are great. > > Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. > The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java & > PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as > that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) > > Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the > competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but > I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job > really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for > C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't > see anything else that would be capable of what I require. > > If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak > (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an > interview with the creator by Dan. > > My thoughts anyway! > > Les > > On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly > wrote: > > Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. > > > On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: >> I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) >> >> TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My >> day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to >> do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but >> thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. >> >> I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for >> a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) >> >> >> >> On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: >> >> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >> >> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some >> advice re: programming >> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands >> (at last) I am looking >> to learn a language that can be used for both web >> development as well as >> locally on the PC. >> >> >> 1. JavaScript. >> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >> Take a look at: >> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >> >> >> >> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps >> would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what >> Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface >> in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to >> understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite >> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few >> months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of >> a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most >> everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases >> at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC >> driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's >> though. >> >> Sebastian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -- Dr David Holden. (dh at iucr.org) From mrcrilly at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 11:43:21 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 11:43:21 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> Message-ID: <4D9AFE73.4030408@gmail.com> I've never tried Ruby (it's visually a mess to me - worse than complex Perl), but I have heard good things. I don't consider PHP to be a mess - I think it's down to the programmer if it's a mess; you're the one writing the code, so you decide if it's a mess or not. Python is lovely but as you imply, it does try to be overly clever about things. I remember buying a Java book a few years back. I read a few chapters and developed a headache, then moved on to Python and Perl and life became a lot easier (basically I got things done very quickly, with ease). Good luck with what ever you choose, Stuart :-) On 05/04/2011 13:30, David Holden wrote: > If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's > nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever > *couch* python *couch*. > > I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with > Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. > > I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. > > If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been > meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly > looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. > > Cheers, > > Dave. > > > > > > On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: >> Hi Stuart, >> >> Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for >> Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must >> add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build >> anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large >> scale enterprise web applications. >> >> It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be >> faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus >> compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly >> typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may >> need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. >> >> The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do >> so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to >> get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO >> in general things like Javadoc are great. >> >> Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. >> The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java& >> PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as >> that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) >> >> Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the >> competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but >> I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job >> really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for >> C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't >> see anything else that would be capable of what I require. >> >> If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak >> (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an >> interview with the creator by Dan. >> >> My thoughts anyway! >> >> Les >> >> On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly> > wrote: >> >> Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. >> >> >> On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: >>> I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) >>> >>> TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My >>> day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to >>> do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but >>> thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. >>> >>> I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for >>> a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus>> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: >>> >>> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >>> >>> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some >>> advice re: programming >>> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands >>> (at last) I am looking >>> to learn a language that can be used for both web >>> development as well as >>> locally on the PC. >>> >>> >>> 1. JavaScript. >>> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >>> Take a look at: >>> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >>> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >>> >>> >>> >>> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps >>> would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what >>> Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface >>> in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to >>> understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite >>> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few >>> months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of >>> a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most >>> everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases >>> at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC >>> driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's >>> though. >>> >>> Sebastian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From les.pritchard at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 12:30:08 2011 From: les.pritchard at gmail.com (Les Pritchard) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:30:08 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9AFE73.4030408@gmail.com> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> <4D9AFE73.4030408@gmail.com> Message-ID: Perhaps there's an opportunity for us to have a meet where we give a brief overview of our chosen language. Would be a really good chance to discuss the differences and introduce non-developers to the basic concepts. I know I'd be interested in seeing some of the languages mentioned in that sort of environment. Anyone else interested? Les On 5 April 2011 12:35, Michael Crilly wrote: > I've never tried Ruby (it's visually a mess to me - worse than complex > Perl), but I have heard good things. I don't consider PHP to be a mess - I > think it's down to the programmer if it's a mess; you're the one writing the > code, so you decide if it's a mess or not. Python is lovely but as you > imply, it does try to be overly clever about things. > > I remember buying a Java book a few years back. I read a few chapters and > developed a headache, then moved on to Python and Perl and life became a lot > easier (basically I got things done very quickly, with ease). > > Good luck with what ever you choose, Stuart :-) > > On 05/04/2011 13:30, David Holden wrote: > > If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's > nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever > *couch* python *couch*. > > I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with > Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. > > I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. > > If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been > meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly > looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. > > Cheers, > > Dave. > > > > > > On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: > > Hi Stuart, > > Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for > Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must > add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build > anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large > scale enterprise web applications. > > It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be > faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus > compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly > typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may > need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. > > The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do > so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to > get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO > in general things like Javadoc are great. > > Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. > The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java & > PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as > that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) > > Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the > competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but > I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job > really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for > C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't > see anything else that would be capable of what I require. > > If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak > (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an > interview with the creator by Dan. > > My thoughts anyway! > > Les > > On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly > wrote: > > Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. > > > On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: > > I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) > > TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My > day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to > do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but > thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. > > I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for > a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) > > > > On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus > wrote: > > > > On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: > > On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: > > I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some > advice re: programming > languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands > (at last) I am looking > to learn a language that can be used for both web > development as well as > locally on the PC. > > > 1. JavaScript. > No, seriously, it is a proper language. > Take a look at: > http://eloquentjavascript.net/ > (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) > > > > In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps > would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what > Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface > in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to > understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite > interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few > months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of > a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most > everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases > at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC > driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's > though. > > Sebastian > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing listChester at mailman.lug.org.ukhttps://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From biglynchy at gmail.com Tue Apr 5 12:32:34 2011 From: biglynchy at gmail.com (Dan Lynch) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:32:34 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> <4D9AFE73.4030408@gmail.com> Message-ID: Sounds interesting to me :) Dan On 5 Apr 2011 13:22, "Les Pritchard" wrote: > Perhaps there's an opportunity for us to have a meet where we give a brief > overview of our chosen language. Would be a really good chance to discuss > the differences and introduce non-developers to the basic concepts. > > I know I'd be interested in seeing some of the languages mentioned in that > sort of environment. > > Anyone else interested? > > Les > > On 5 April 2011 12:35, Michael Crilly wrote: > >> I've never tried Ruby (it's visually a mess to me - worse than complex >> Perl), but I have heard good things. I don't consider PHP to be a mess - I >> think it's down to the programmer if it's a mess; you're the one writing the >> code, so you decide if it's a mess or not. Python is lovely but as you >> imply, it does try to be overly clever about things. >> >> I remember buying a Java book a few years back. I read a few chapters and >> developed a headache, then moved on to Python and Perl and life became a lot >> easier (basically I got things done very quickly, with ease). >> >> Good luck with what ever you choose, Stuart :-) >> >> On 05/04/2011 13:30, David Holden wrote: >> >> If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's >> nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever >> *couch* python *couch*. >> >> I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with >> Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. >> >> I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. >> >> If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been >> meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly >> looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dave. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: >> >> Hi Stuart, >> >> Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for >> Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must >> add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build >> anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large >> scale enterprise web applications. >> >> It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be >> faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus >> compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly >> typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may >> need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. >> >> The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do >> so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to >> get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO >> in general things like Javadoc are great. >> >> Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. >> The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java & >> PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as >> that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) >> >> Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the >> competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but >> I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job >> really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for >> C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't >> see anything else that would be capable of what I require. >> >> If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak >> (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an >> interview with the creator by Dan. >> >> My thoughts anyway! >> >> Les >> >> On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly > wrote: >> >> Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. >> >> >> On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: >> >> I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) >> >> TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My >> day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to >> do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but >> thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. >> >> I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for >> a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) >> >> >> >> On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus > > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: >> >> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >> >> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some >> advice re: programming >> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands >> (at last) I am looking >> to learn a language that can be used for both web >> development as well as >> locally on the PC. >> >> >> 1. JavaScript. >> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >> Take a look at: >> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >> >> >> >> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps >> would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what >> Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface >> in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to >> understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite >> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few >> months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of >> a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most >> everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases >> at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC >> driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's >> though. >> >> Sebastian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk < Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk> >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk < Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk> >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk < Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk> >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing listChester at mailman.lug.org.ukhttps:// mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shop at open-t.co.uk Tue Apr 5 12:41:47 2011 From: shop at open-t.co.uk (Sebastian Arcus) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:41:47 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> <4D9AFE73.4030408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9B0C25.7070209@open-t.co.uk> I'd certainly be interested meet/debate. Programming languages are one of those cool things, where you are guaranteed to have eloquent debates for hours and hours from all sides :D - as long as things don't get too heated up. I feel I must pitch some support for the good old C. I've been too scared of it when in Uni - but finally managed enough courage to get into it later on. I must say, I was pleasantly surprised. Yes, I always found Java really elegant, but when it comes to real desktop apps, the result never looks that elegant - only the code. However, I found C, somehow, really logical. It's hard to describe. Also, there are libraries to access and do almost everything in C - on pretty much any platform - including GUI toolkits for all major OS's. Also, I think it is telling the fact that it has been around for such a long time and it is still striving in its way. Another bonus is that, for the first time, when programmers write on forums about some Linux software or library "Just go and have a look at the header files and you will figure it out" - I finally knew what they meant. The ability to figure out a piece of software with basic documentation, I felt, was quite something. But then again, it's all very personal - and on top of that, although you can write CGI scripts in C - it's not exactly the ideal way of doing web programming. I'll go away now, before I stoke this fire too much :-) Sebastian On 04/05/2011 01:22 PM, Les Pritchard wrote: > Perhaps there's an opportunity for us to have a meet where we give a > brief overview of our chosen language. Would be a really good chance to > discuss the differences and introduce non-developers to the basic concepts. > > I know I'd be interested in seeing some of the languages mentioned in > that sort of environment. > > Anyone else interested? > > Les > > On 5 April 2011 12:35, Michael Crilly > wrote: > > I've never tried Ruby (it's visually a mess to me - worse than > complex Perl), but I have heard good things. I don't consider PHP to > be a mess - I think it's down to the programmer if it's a mess; > you're the one writing the code, so you decide if it's a mess or > not. Python is lovely but as you imply, it does try to be overly > clever about things. > > I remember buying a Java book a few years back. I read a few > chapters and developed a headache, then moved on to Python and Perl > and life became a lot easier (basically I got things done very > quickly, with ease). > > Good luck with what ever you choose, Stuart :-) > > On 05/04/2011 13:30, David Holden wrote: >> If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's >> nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever >> *couch* python *couch*. >> >> I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with >> Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. >> >> I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. >> >> If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been >> meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly >> looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Dave. >> >> >> >> >> >> On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: >>> Hi Stuart, >>> >>> Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for >>> Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must >>> add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build >>> anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large >>> scale enterprise web applications. >>> >>> It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be >>> faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus >>> compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly >>> typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may >>> need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. >>> >>> The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do >>> so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to >>> get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO >>> in general things like Javadoc are great. >>> >>> Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. >>> The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java& >>> PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as >>> that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) >>> >>> Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the >>> competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but >>> I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job >>> really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for >>> C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't >>> see anything else that would be capable of what I require. >>> >>> If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak >>> (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an >>> interview with the creator by Dan. >>> >>> My thoughts anyway! >>> >>> Les >>> >>> On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. >>> >>> >>> On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: >>>> I knew someone would come up with some"odd" ones :) >>>> >>>> TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My >>>> day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to >>>> do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but >>>> thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. >>>> >>>> I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for >>>> a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: >>>> >>>> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >>>> >>>> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some >>>> advice re: programming >>>> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands >>>> (at last) I am looking >>>> to learn a language that can be used for both web >>>> development as well as >>>> locally on the PC. >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. JavaScript. >>>> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >>>> Take a look at: >>>> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >>>> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps >>>> would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what >>>> Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface >>>> in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to >>>> understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite >>>> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few >>>> months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of >>>> a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most >>>> everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases >>>> at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC >>>> driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's >>>> though. >>>> >>>> Sebastian >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chester mailing list >>>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Chester mailing list >>>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester From smedley358 at btinternet.com Tue Apr 5 13:04:51 2011 From: smedley358 at btinternet.com (Richard Smedley) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 13:04:51 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9B0C25.7070209@open-t.co.uk> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> <4D9AFE73.4030408@gmail.com> <4D9B0C25.7070209@open-t.co.uk> Message-ID: <4D9B1190.5080407@btinternet.com> On 05/04/11 13:33, Sebastian Arcus wrote: > I'd certainly be interested meet/debate. Programming languages are one > of those cool things, where you are guaranteed to have eloquent debates > for hours and hours from all sides :D - as long as things don't get too > heated up. You have this in mind? ;^) [snip] > However, I found C, somehow, really logical. It's hard to describe. "C - the power of assembler code, but with all the abstraction & ease of assembler code"? ;-P Actually, every coder should learn C. However, I don't think it's the answer for the OP, as although an elegant, simple & powerful language, it's not the way to Get Things Done Quickly [TM] Nor is Java, however many other things can be said in its favour. Ruby & Python, both mentioned, are great places to start - they do similar things but in significantly diffent ways. Why not spend a couple of days learning the basics of each, and see which has the best "feel" for you? Programming is a very personal thing. I also stand by my recommendations for JavaScript [1], a complete language for which *everyone* has a runtime, and which will grow rapidly on the server in the next few years. & Clojure - "Lisp done right", and it runs on the JVM, hence anywhere. Either fit most of the requirements of the OP. > I'll go away now, before I stoke this fire too much :-) It's great to have a flame-free language discussion. Nobody mention which editor to use! ;o) >> Perhaps there's an opportunity for us to have a meet where we give a >> brief overview of our chosen language. Would be a really good chance to >> discuss the differences and introduce non-developers to the basic >> concepts. +1 - Richard [1] In fact we're looking at JavaScript for a project to teach kids to code. From stuart.james.burns at gmail.com Wed Apr 6 19:10:24 2011 From: stuart.james.burns at gmail.com (Stuart Burns) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 19:10:24 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much Message-ID: Hi Everyone, Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per year. Shocked doesn't cover it. So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth per year ? Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) Stu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrcrilly at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 08:01:44 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 08:01:44 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> 500GB in a year? Stuart I do that a week downloading movies thanks for Virgin's 50mbit service. On 06/04/2011 21:02, Stuart Burns wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic > utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per > year. Shocked doesn't cover it. > > So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth > per year ? > > Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) > > Stu > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From biglynchy at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 09:13:51 2011 From: biglynchy at gmail.com (Dan Lynch) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:13:51 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much In-Reply-To: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> References: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> Message-ID: I'm not sure what I use in a year bandwidth wise but as Michael says 500GB isn't massive. I know people who use a lot more. I can't get cable here but I wouldn't mind one of those 50mbit connections. I'm jealous now :) Dan On 7 Apr 2011 08:53, "Michael Crilly" wrote: > 500GB in a year? Stuart I do that a week downloading movies thanks for > Virgin's 50mbit service. > > On 06/04/2011 21:02, Stuart Burns wrote: >> Hi Everyone, >> >> Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic >> utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per >> year. Shocked doesn't cover it. >> >> So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth >> per year ? >> >> Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) >> >> Stu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrcrilly at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 09:16:51 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:16:51 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much In-Reply-To: References: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9D7F1E.4060209@gmail.com> It's bliss Dan, it's bliss ;-) In all honesty, I don't download 500GB per week, but I do come close with movies, Spotify (legal music streaming), gaming and general surfing/IRC/e-mail. I bet ISPs love you Stuart, you're the model customer! :) On 07/04/2011 11:05, Dan Lynch wrote: > > I'm not sure what I use in a year bandwidth wise but as Michael says > 500GB isn't massive. I know people who use a lot more. > > I can't get cable here but I wouldn't mind one of those 50mbit > connections. I'm jealous now :) > > Dan > > On 7 Apr 2011 08:53, "Michael Crilly" > wrote: > > 500GB in a year? Stuart I do that a week downloading movies thanks for > > Virgin's 50mbit service. > > > > On 06/04/2011 21:02, Stuart Burns wrote: > >> Hi Everyone, > >> > >> Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic > >> utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per > >> year. Shocked doesn't cover it. > >> > >> So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth > >> per year ? > >> > >> Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) > >> > >> Stu > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chester mailing list > >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.james.burns at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 09:40:54 2011 From: stuart.james.burns at gmail.com (Stuart Burns) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:40:54 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much In-Reply-To: References: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> Message-ID: Of course, all this usage is legit, isn't it ;) On 7 Apr 2011 10:05, "Dan Lynch" wrote: > I'm not sure what I use in a year bandwidth wise but as Michael says 500GB > isn't massive. I know people who use a lot more. > > I can't get cable here but I wouldn't mind one of those 50mbit connections. > I'm jealous now :) > > Dan > On 7 Apr 2011 08:53, "Michael Crilly" wrote: >> 500GB in a year? Stuart I do that a week downloading movies thanks for >> Virgin's 50mbit service. >> >> On 06/04/2011 21:02, Stuart Burns wrote: >>> Hi Everyone, >>> >>> Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic >>> utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per >>> year. Shocked doesn't cover it. >>> >>> So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth >>> per year ? >>> >>> Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) >>> >>> Stu >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrcrilly at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 09:42:06 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 09:42:06 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much In-Reply-To: References: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9D850A.9020109@gmail.com> No :P On 07/04/2011 11:32, Stuart Burns wrote: > > Of course, all this usage is legit, isn't it ;) > > On 7 Apr 2011 10:05, "Dan Lynch" > wrote: > > I'm not sure what I use in a year bandwidth wise but as Michael says > 500GB > > isn't massive. I know people who use a lot more. > > > > I can't get cable here but I wouldn't mind one of those 50mbit > connections. > > I'm jealous now :) > > > > Dan > > On 7 Apr 2011 08:53, "Michael Crilly" > wrote: > >> 500GB in a year? Stuart I do that a week downloading movies thanks for > >> Virgin's 50mbit service. > >> > >> On 06/04/2011 21:02, Stuart Burns wrote: > >>> Hi Everyone, > >>> > >>> Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic > >>> utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per > >>> year. Shocked doesn't cover it. > >>> > >>> So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth > >>> per year ? > >>> > >>> Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) > >>> > >>> Stu > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chester mailing list > >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From biglynchy at gmail.com Thu Apr 7 11:27:07 2011 From: biglynchy at gmail.com (Dan Lynch) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2011 11:27:07 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Ooops Did I really download that much In-Reply-To: <4D9D850A.9020109@gmail.com> References: <4D9D6D84.9020503@gmail.com> <4D9D850A.9020109@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well of course officer, I've been downloading the full Debian DVD set with the complete package repositories, over and over again. Just in case I need to set up a local mirror any time hehe :) Dan On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:34 AM, Michael Crilly wrote: > No :P > > > On 07/04/2011 11:32, Stuart Burns wrote: > > Of course, all this usage is legit, isn't it ;) > On 7 Apr 2011 10:05, "Dan Lynch" wrote: > > I'm not sure what I use in a year bandwidth wise but as Michael says > 500GB > > isn't massive. I know people who use a lot more. > > > > I can't get cable here but I wouldn't mind one of those 50mbit > connections. > > I'm jealous now :) > > > > Dan > > On 7 Apr 2011 08:53, "Michael Crilly" wrote: > >> 500GB in a year? Stuart I do that a week downloading movies thanks for > >> Virgin's 50mbit service. > >> > >> On 06/04/2011 21:02, Stuart Burns wrote: > >>> Hi Everyone, > >>> > >>> Just out of boredom more than anything else, I checked my traffic > >>> utilisation on my wan interface. My did I get a shock. Half a TB per > >>> year. Shocked doesn't cover it. > >>> > >>> So this led me to think, what does everyone else do bandwidth worth > >>> per year ? > >>> > >>> Right, off to get my coat and learn some programming ;) > >>> > >>> Stu > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chester mailing list > >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing listChester at mailman.lug.org.ukhttps://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrcrilly at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 11:44:59 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 11:44:59 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Cabling Message-ID: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> Greetings all, After recently working in Frankfurt, Germany (still here actually) decommissioning Nortel equipment, I decided I would look at cabling techniques and best practices. Our IT room is a bit messy, at both offices in the UK and Germany, and I want to tidy them up as best as I can. Does anyone have experience doing small to large cabling operations and can give me some tips? How about some horror stories? ;) - Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stuart.james.burns at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 12:04:27 2011 From: stuart.james.burns at gmail.com (Stuart Burns) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:04:27 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Cabling In-Reply-To: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> References: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> Message-ID: You've seen the nightmares at the "M" company, aintcha, my spaghetti special :) On 8 April 2011 12:36, Michael Crilly wrote: > Greetings all, > > After recently working in Frankfurt, Germany (still here actually) > decommissioning Nortel equipment, I decided I would look at cabling > techniques and best practices. Our IT room is a bit messy, at both offices > in the UK and Germany, and I want to tidy them up as best as I can. > > Does anyone have experience doing small to large cabling operations and can > give me some tips? How about some horror stories? ;) > > - Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mrcrilly at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 12:05:28 2011 From: mrcrilly at gmail.com (Michael Crilly) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:05:28 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Cabling In-Reply-To: References: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4D9EF822.4090202@gmail.com> Ha! I wanted to rip all that out and start over. It's amazing how it seems to be the same case at all small businesses :) On 08/04/2011 13:56, Stuart Burns wrote: > You've seen the nightmares at the "M" company, aintcha, my spaghetti > special :) > > On 8 April 2011 12:36, Michael Crilly > wrote: > > Greetings all, > > After recently working in Frankfurt, Germany (still here actually) > decommissioning Nortel equipment, I decided I would look at > cabling techniques and best practices. Our IT room is a bit messy, > at both offices in the UK and Germany, and I want to tidy them up > as best as I can. > > Does anyone have experience doing small to large cabling > operations and can give me some tips? How about some horror > stories? ;) > > - Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From les.pritchard at gmail.com Fri Apr 8 12:08:17 2011 From: les.pritchard at gmail.com (Les Pritchard) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:08:17 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Cabling In-Reply-To: <4D9EF822.4090202@gmail.com> References: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> <4D9EF822.4090202@gmail.com> Message-ID: Believe me, I've seen terrible cabling at big companies too! They'll typically have one smart room that they can show the management, but look at the comms rooms and they can often be a real mess! It's not easy to keep things tidy when cabling isn't the only thing you're doing. As much cabling ducts as possible help, and colour code the cables - that is very useful. Les On 8 April 2011 12:57, Michael Crilly wrote: > Ha! I wanted to rip all that out and start over. It's amazing how it > seems to be the same case at all small businesses :) > > > On 08/04/2011 13:56, Stuart Burns wrote: > > You've seen the nightmares at the "M" company, aintcha, my spaghetti > special :) > > On 8 April 2011 12:36, Michael Crilly wrote: > >> Greetings all, >> >> After recently working in Frankfurt, Germany (still here actually) >> decommissioning Nortel equipment, I decided I would look at cabling >> techniques and best practices. Our IT room is a bit messy, at both offices >> in the UK and Germany, and I want to tidy them up as best as I can. >> >> Does anyone have experience doing small to large cabling operations and >> can give me some tips? How about some horror stories? ;) >> >> - Mike >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing listChester at mailman.lug.org.ukhttps://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nev at nevstah.co.uk Fri Apr 8 14:09:17 2011 From: nev at nevstah.co.uk (Nev) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2011 14:09:17 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Cabling In-Reply-To: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> References: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <88D922F1-D815-41D1-8F26-99A9DF4F2E27@nevstah.co.uk> hi I've seen very smart and tidy cabling in a comms room! only to find out later all visible cabling was 'fake' and just for show! never did get to see the real solution ;) nev Sent from my iPhone On 8 Apr 2011, at 12:36, Michael Crilly wrote: > Greetings all, > > After recently working in Frankfurt, Germany (still here actually) decommissioning Nortel equipment, I decided I would look at cabling techniques and best practices. Our IT room is a bit messy, at both offices in the UK and Germany, and I want to tidy them up as best as I can. > > Does anyone have experience doing small to large cabling operations and can give me some tips? How about some horror stories? ;) > > - Mike > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dh at iucr.org Sat Apr 9 10:52:55 2011 From: dh at iucr.org (David Holden) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2011 10:52:55 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Cabling In-Reply-To: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> References: <4D9EF355.6060505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DA03898.8010204@iucr.org> We try and label both ends of a cable - this way when it inevitably turns in to spaghetti you can at least know what's plugged into what. Dave. On 08/04/11 12:36, Michael Crilly wrote: > Greetings all, > > After recently working in Frankfurt, Germany (still here actually) > decommissioning Nortel equipment, I decided I would look at cabling > techniques and best practices. Our IT room is a bit messy, at both > offices in the UK and Germany, and I want to tidy them up as best as I can. > > Does anyone have experience doing small to large cabling operations and > can give me some tips? How about some horror stories? ;) > > - Mike > > > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester -- Dr David Holden. (dh at iucr.org) From biglynchy at gmail.com Tue Apr 12 12:26:12 2011 From: biglynchy at gmail.com (Dan Lynch) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2011 12:26:12 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Fwd: OggCamp 11 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Check out the email below from Alan Pope. A fellow OggCamp organiser. The dates and venue are now out! You can also register now via EventBrite. If you want to talk about travel arrangements obviously I'll be heading down from here. Hope some of you can make it :) Dan ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alan Pope Date: Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 9:54 AM Subject: OggCamp 11 To: "A closed discussion list for UK LUGMasters." < lugmaster at mailman.lug.org.uk> Cc: Oggcamp Hullo LUGgers! We (Ubuntu UK Podcast & Linux Outlaws) have just announced that we'll be holding another OggCamp this year. If you'd be so kind as to inform your group members, we'd very much appreciate it. OggCamp 11 will be held on the 13th & 14th August at Farnham Maltings [0] in Surrey and it's free to attend. Details are on our website [1]. We have put the basics about the event up on the site, and will add more information as we have it, including travel and accommodation info. As with last years event we'll have a few rooms available for people to give talks about things that interest them. The event isn't specifically about Free Software or indeed Linux, but it does lean heavily in that direction. If you'd like to talk about something that interests you, do come along, grab a slot and rock on. We're actively looking for sponsors of the event, so if you know any groups/companies who might be interested, do throw them our way. Contact details on the site [1]. Although entrance is free we'd ask that people sign up at Eventbrite so we can get an idea of numbers ahead of time. If you later find you can't make it, do let us know so we can release the ticket. We'll be announcing more details over the coming months on both Linux Outlaws [3] and the Ubuntu UK Podcast [4], and of course we'll update the main site [1] too. Cheers, Al. [0] - http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=51.211731&lon=-0.797696&zoom=18&layers=M [1] - http://oggcamp.org/ [2] - http://oggcamp11.eventbrite.com/ [3] - http://linuxoutlaws.com/ [4] - http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dh at iucr.org Mon Apr 18 15:55:16 2011 From: dh at iucr.org (David Holden) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 15:55:16 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> Message-ID: <4DAC5CCE.7020804@iucr.org> Guardian Tech on using http://www.guardian.co.uk/info/developer-blog/2011/apr/18/scala Dave. On 05/04/11 12:30, David Holden wrote: > If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's > nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever > *couch* python *couch*. > > I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with > Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. > > I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. > > If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been > meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly > looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. > > Cheers, > > Dave. > > > > > > On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: >> Hi Stuart, >> >> Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for >> Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must >> add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build >> anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large >> scale enterprise web applications. >> >> It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be >> faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus >> compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly >> typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may >> need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. >> >> The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do >> so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to >> get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO >> in general things like Javadoc are great. >> >> Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. >> The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java & >> PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as >> that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) >> >> Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the >> competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but >> I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job >> really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for >> C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't >> see anything else that would be capable of what I require. >> >> If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak >> (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an >> interview with the creator by Dan. >> >> My thoughts anyway! >> >> Les >> >> On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly > > wrote: >> >> Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you want. >> >> >> On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: >>> I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) >>> >>> TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My >>> day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to >>> do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but >>> thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. >>> >>> I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for >>> a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) >>> >>> >>> >>> On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: >>> >>> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: >>> >>> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some >>> advice re: programming >>> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands >>> (at last) I am looking >>> to learn a language that can be used for both web >>> development as well as >>> locally on the PC. >>> >>> >>> 1. JavaScript. >>> No, seriously, it is a proper language. >>> Take a look at: >>> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ >>> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) >>> >>> >>> >>> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps >>> would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what >>> Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface >>> in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to >>> understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite >>> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few >>> months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of >>> a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most >>> everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases >>> at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC >>> driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's >>> though. >>> >>> Sebastian >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Chester mailing list >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Chester mailing list >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > -- Dr David Holden. (dh at iucr.org) From les.pritchard at gmail.com Mon Apr 18 22:32:56 2011 From: les.pritchard at gmail.com (Les Pritchard) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2011 22:32:56 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Looking to learn a language In-Reply-To: <4DAC5CCE.7020804@iucr.org> References: <4D9A21A2.4040806@btinternet.com> <4D9A2B7E.6010604@open-t.co.uk> <4D9AC899.5030607@gmail.com> <4D9AFD41.5020602@iucr.org> <4DAC5CCE.7020804@iucr.org> Message-ID: Very interesting. I was going to suggest that we could maybe cover this at the next LUG meet? There's been quite a few suggestions on different languages during this discussion - would those who have made suggestions be happy to give a quick demo / talk (all informal) on their language of choice? I think it would be a really good opportunity for us all to see something different. Les On 18 April 2011 16:46, David Holden wrote: > Guardian Tech on using > http://www.guardian.co.uk/info/developer-blog/2011/apr/18/scala > > Dave. > > > On 05/04/11 12:30, David Holden wrote: > > If I didn't have so much invested in Perl I'd probably go Ruby. It's > > nicely objected oriented and generally doesn't try to be too clever > > *couch* python *couch*. > > > > I would agree with Les, I don't think performance should be a worry with > > Java now but it is massive and they abstract the hell out of everything. > > > > I find PHP a mess but it is very powerful. > > > > If you want Java like by more of a scripting language I've always been > > meaning to look at either Scala or Judoscript. Judoscript particularly > > looks interesting from a sysadmin point of view. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Dave. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 05/04/11 10:07, Les Pritchard wrote: > >> Hi Stuart, > >> > >> Some interesting suggestions there. I do feel I need to stick up for > >> Java here as lots of people like to criticise it (not here though I must > >> add). Java is a platform (not just a language) that enables to you build > >> anything from small embedded systems through desktop apps to the large > >> scale enterprise web applications. > >> > >> It isn't as fast as something written in C or C++, but it will still be > >> faster than most of the interpreted languages out there. Plus > >> compilation provides additional error checking etc. Java is strongly > >> typed, which I personally prefer. I'm yet to find a reason why you may > >> need weak typing - maybe it's just the way I program. > >> > >> The problem with Java is that it is massive. There are libraries to do > >> so much and that scares some people off. Also like C++ is takes a bit to > >> get your head around it all at first, but once you get the basics and OO > >> in general things like Javadoc are great. > >> > >> Java is the most widely used language so as a skill it's very valuable. > >> The two types of development jobs that are always out there are Java & > >> PHP, so that's always a plus (please note I'm ignoring the .net jobs as > >> that's normally C# and that's just really Java anyway :-) ) > >> > >> Like editors, everyone has their favourites and often dislikes the > >> competition! I'm not saying that Java is the best for everything, but > >> I've programmed in it for a long time now and it's always done the job > >> really well. If I were to start from scratch I may consider going for > >> C++ instead, but that would limit me slightly. Apart from that I can't > >> see anything else that would be capable of what I require. > >> > >> If you fancy something bleeding edge, you could always try Newspeak > >> (http://bracha.org/Site/Newspeak.html), see FLOSS weekly for an > >> interview with the creator by Dan. > >> > >> My thoughts anyway! > >> > >> Les > >> > >> On 5 April 2011 08:45, Michael Crilly >> > wrote: > >> > >> Perl + Catalyst or PHP + Symfony, couple with any DB back-end you > want. > >> > >> > >> On 04/04/2011 22:42, Stuart Burns wrote: > >>> I knew someone would come up with some "odd" ones :) > >>> > >>> TBH to my mind, it is just an exercise in seeing what I can do. My > >>> day job is all VMware and Linux infrastructure so I don't get to > >>> do any programming (well powershell for vmware automation but > >>> thats about it) I can hack perl together if I need to. > >>> > >>> I can give you an example. I have what I think is a good idea for > >>> a website, but I don't currently have the skills to implement it :) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 4 April 2011 21:35, Sebastian Arcus >>> > wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 04/04/2011 08:53 PM, Richard Smedley wrote: > >>> > >>> On 04/04/11 18:44, Stuart Burns wrote: > >>> > >>> I just thought I would drop an email to ask for some > >>> advice re: programming > >>> languages to learn. Now that I have time on my hands > >>> (at last) I am looking > >>> to learn a language that can be used for both web > >>> development as well as > >>> locally on the PC. > >>> > >>> > >>> 1. JavaScript. > >>> No, seriously, it is a proper language. > >>> Take a look at: > >>> http://eloquentjavascript.net/ > >>> (& you can move on to node.js afterwards :) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> In that case, I suppose an option for programming local apps > >>> would be the XULrunner platform from Mozilla. It is what > >>> Firefox and Thunderbird is built on. You program the interface > >>> in XUL (which is a mark-up language, quite easy to > >>> understand), and the logic in Javascript. I found it all quite > >>> interesting, and the multiplatform aspect helps. However, few > >>> months ago when I tried it, the printing feature was a bit of > >>> a major PITA - so I started looking elsewhere. I liked most > >>> everything else though. It only has access to SQLite databases > >>> at the moment, but there was talk of implementing an ODBC > >>> driver which would allow connections to a lot of other RDBMS's > >>> though. > >>> > >>> Sebastian > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chester mailing list > >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Chester mailing list > >>> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chester mailing list > >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Chester mailing list > >> Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > > > > -- > Dr David Holden. (dh at iucr.org) > > _______________________________________________ > Chester mailing list > Chester at mailman.lug.org.uk > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/chester > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From les.pritchard at gmail.com Tue Apr 26 21:59:00 2011 From: les.pritchard at gmail.com (Les Pritchard) Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 21:59:00 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] LUG Social Message-ID: Hi all, It's that time again! We'll be meeting this Thursday evening from 7pm at the Bear & Billet for the April social. I'm just waiting for confirmation that we have the top room and will let you know as soon as I hear. There wasn't much response to the idea of people giving quick 5 minute demos of their programming language of choice. If anyone does fancy giving a quick demo (I'm talking real basic intro - not an intensive course!) let us know. Les -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From les.pritchard at gmail.com Wed Apr 27 14:02:24 2011 From: les.pritchard at gmail.com (Les Pritchard) Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2011 14:02:24 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] LUG Social Message-ID: Hi, We will have the top room for tomorrow's meet, so see you there and feel free to bring your laptops along. Les -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wilp4a at hotmail.co.uk Thu Apr 28 21:57:54 2011 From: wilp4a at hotmail.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 21:57:54 -0000 Subject: [Chester LUG] Films Message-ID: Just a quick reminder of the film recommendation of the month - Saving Grace! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0195234/ I'm sure those of a mind to watch it can lay claim to a copy somehow... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: