[Colchester] The fifth freedom
wayland at sothcott.co.uk
Mon Jul 14 22:14:56 BST 2008
Jai Harrison wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 9:24 PM, Wayland Sothcott
> <wayland at sothcott.co.uk> wrote:
>> Jai Harrison wrote:
>>> -- I posted this message on the Ubuntu UK Mailing List but felt it
>>> would be appropriate here too --
>>> I have been thinking about this for a long time and contacted the FSF
>>> a while ago concerning how the GPL doesn't ensure my freedoms anymore.
>>> They directed me to the Affero General Public License and I have
>>> decided to license any of my work that I release under it to ensure it
>>> remains free.
>>> This is a big problem nowadays though. I'm using Google Apps for Your
>>> Domain which most likely uses code that was previously free. Google is
>>> one of the companies that makes a lot of money out of free software by
>>> making it proprietary in a sense that the GPL doesn't prevent. There's
>>> an interesting post on linux.com about this:
>>> What do you guys think about the theft of our freedoms that web
>>> applications are introducing and on the requirement of a fifth freedom
>>> to be introduced to protect free software from nasty corporations who
>>> choose to exploit it (e.g. Google).
>>> Colchester mailing list
>>> Colchester at mailman.lug.org.uk
>> Hello Jai,
>> I think you are confusing free beer with liberty. As far as I am concerned I
>> am at liberty to use GPL programs comercially. I can sell them to people and
>> I can modify them. Even if I did not write them.
>> I have done this with IP-Cop, Debian, Open Office and many small
>> applications. What I don't do is pretend that I wrote them and if I have
>> made improvements then I feed these back to the user forums and contribute
>> plenty in the way of support to orther users. In the case of programs like
>> Spybot, I make occasional donations and encourage my users to. However I
>> will charge my users when I clean up their computer using Spybot. You don't
>> have to be a programmer to contribute to the Open Source, GPL and Free
>> software programs on offer.
>> Linksys got their WRT54G router off to a head start by using Linux. However
>> they were suprized when they were legaly bound to publish the source for
>> others to use. Many groups have used the source to do their own improved
>> versions of the code. dd-wrt is the one I use but if you love the command
>> line then use OpenWRT which is very powerfull. I contribute to the forums
>> and gave the dd-wrt people the occasional donation. I use dd-wrt
>> commcerially. Linksys have learned that you can't adopt GPL code as your
>> own, it always belongs to the original creator. We do have to stay vigelant
>> to make sure the big companies are not stealing ownership. We want them to
>> use GPL because it helps them make better products and helps us take those
>> products and make them even better.
>> Microsoft have done well basically because they allowed their programs to be
>> copied and allowed everyone to write for their operating systems. They can
>> squeeze this a bit to create some money but if they squeeze the life out of
>> the pirate and 3rd part program market then they kill their own products.
>> Those programs that required dongles have not done as well commercially as
>> those that technically allow free copying. Think of the original PlayStation
>> Ve the Nintendo Game Cube (?), duplicating the games CDs for a PlayStation
>> was far easier than duplicating games cartidges. What Linux and the GPL
>> market does is make a virtue out of copying but not killing the possibility
>> of charging money for the finished product. Granted that GPL is tipped
>> firmly in favour of not paying for stuff but it's still massively comercial
>> by virtue of being able to charge users for setting things up in the
>> specific way they need. GPL is much better at meeting specific needs since
>> you can get in and change the code. You might not do this yourself but you
>> could pay the developer or find one which someone has already forked the
>> Are you in danger of becomming a Freetard? That means you think it's wrong
>> to be charged money for something.
> No, Wayland. This is about companies that have realised they can
> modify GPL code, improve upon it and then withhold the freedoms from
> users whilst exploiting a loop hole in the GPL that allows them to
> provide a service over the web without providing the actual script
> (only what it returns) and thus stealing from free software developers
> and the community. This is a serious problem and a great example of
> this is Meebo which uses libpurple (a part of Pidgin) yet they don't
> make the source available because the flawed GPL doesn't require them
> The reason that there are 3 versions of the GPL is because the prior
> versions didn't ensure freedom thanks to loop holes that were
> discovered. A major loophole in the GPL allows our freedom to be taken
> from us and, as such, I argue that the definition of Free Software as
> per the FSF is inaccurate and the licenses they recommend are
> Colchester mailing list
> Colchester at mailman.lug.org.uk
Is my understanding correct of what GPL is supposed to be?
If it is then those people have deliberately 'misunderstood' GPL in
order to steal the code.
Maybe time for some hacking ;-)
I am sorry but my view of the world changed radically about 6 months ago
when I realised the 9/11 thing
This corporate stealing is an example of the 9/11 thing. Were by those
in a position of power can do just about anything.
The more outragious the less likely anyone will believe they just did it.
People will make excuses for this and be only too happy to accept any
spin that these corporates will feed us.
I have just been spat out from a forum discussing ID cards
http://mylifemyid.com . They are using age discrimination to say my
login is invalid. The main thrust of all everyones comments is that
National ID is a terrible thing but the government don't care what we think.
I have attacked United Biscuits over some discusting penguins that they
claim were fine. They thought lieing was OK if they gave me some vouchers.
I seriously think that all of these people have far too much power and
they just pretend to be concerned. I see people being polite and they
get a polite response. I see people being beligerant and get a polite
response and then no more response. If you blow up their factory you
just get branded a terrorist and they carry on the same.
These fights are not just about what is right. You actually need
something that can really HURT them. The water company can turn the
water off, not by law but they still have that tap. In order to get
anywere with this we need some actual real power. Can we actually hit
them where it hurts. When a small group causes a large effect, they are
called illegal extremists.
We have let our friends at google get too much power. We were on the
side of Microsoft when they were beating the evil IBM. We were on the
side of Google when they were beating the now evil Microsoft. You see
how the power corrupts.
As Linux people do we have way too much power that has corrupted us and
now we are evil, or are we being walked all over by those with too much
I feel that Linux has a nice amount of power. Do we have enough power to
kick Google and others who are stealing our freedoms? I personally don't
trust the law, has Linux got a global OFF switch?
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