[Colchester] The greatest prime minister of all time

[Chris Pritchard]

but maggie sucked :P
On 15 Jun 2008, at 15:32, Wayland Sothcott wrote:

> Tom Robbins wrote:
>> The Internet isn't a power but rather a resource, and unusually for  
>> a resource is not subject to scarcity. Artificially imposing  
>> scarcity on it is just a bloody silly idea, which I hope is doomed  
>> for failure.
>>
>> I can be so idealistic some times.
>>
>> The New Deal isn't really a good example of Labours activities,  
>> since it was put into place by John Major's government. I'll agree  
>> that they have done a lot for vulnerable people, but that has  
>> included widening the definition of vulnerable to damn near  
>> everyone. It doesn't make them liberal, it makes them (vaguely)  
>> benevolent. To paraphrase: a benevolent authoritarian is still  
>> authoritarian.
>>
>> Council housing and unemployment benefits might be nice, but we've  
>> also had war, paranoia, the undoing of centuries of citizens  
>> rights, being party to torture and murder, and the surveillance  
>> society. Yon Tony has been one of the great prime ministers in a  
>> similar, although slightly less extreme way, to how Hitler was one  
>> of the great German chancellors: he's achieved some quite  
>> spectacular things, some of them even benefited the world at large,  
>> but a lot of it wasn't nice and has been carefully ignored.
>>
>> Toby Whaymand wrote:
>>> I your points are very vialed. With regards to the data protection  
>>> Act I'm not saying it right or wrong but just that how it is.
>>> Sadly with great power, (being the internet) comes great  
>>> responsibility (can't remember which movie or TV show I got that  
>>> from, prob Star Trek) and there needs to be some kind of control  
>>> even if it means having new laws that make exceptions to the Data  
>>> Protection Act.
>>>
>>> With regards to Labour without a huge debate they have done a lot  
>>> for vulnerable people.
>>> The Council have a legal duty to house anyone who lived in the  
>>> area for 2 years or have a connection like family members in the  
>>> area, who have live in the area for over 5 years.
>>>
>>> With regards to the unemployment New Deal started within days of  
>>> Labour coming into power back in 1997 and millions of under 25  
>>> years old got into employment and higher education.  The type of  
>>> vulnerable people who otherwise would have been pushed aside.  -  
>>> To me that very liberal.
>>>
>>> I know Labour have made mistakes and I don't want to go into a  
>>> debate but it is important to remember all the good stuff Mr Blur  
>>> has done for us.  I would even say he was one of the Great Prime  
>>> Ministers of are time.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Toby
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------
>>>
> Tom,
>
> I am glad you said all that, for a moment I felt I was living inside  
> an alternate universe run by the BBC (since David Kelly's death). At  
> least in terms of government I no longer believe the saying "Never  
> attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence". To that  
> I say "Ooops, so sorry you tripped over my foot, how careless of me  
> to stretch my leg just as you were hurrying past".
>
> Toby,
>
> How about tax credits, good thing or bad thing? With the tax system  
> it's possible and actually required for a person to calculate their  
> own tax, even if that's an unpleasant job. With tax credits you let  
> a government agency tell you what you're entitled to, they then pay  
> you a regular lump of much needed money. If you were not poor then  
> you would not need tax credits. Then a year later they tell you that  
> you were overpaid and you have a week to pay back the overpayment.  
> Government incompetence in such a delicate area looks malicious.  
> It's inexcusable and it's not a one off.
>
> It's time we stopped assuming their heart's in the right place and  
> that government action that leads to harm was a mistake. There are  
> too many such 'unfortunate' mistakes for this not to be deliberate.  
> The fuel tanker drivers are on strike, they are only trying to get a  
> pay award but I suspect those with holding the pay award are hoping  
> to gain from the strike itself. Maybe the government can exercise or  
> extend it's emergency powers? Maybe the price of petrol is driven  
> further upwards? Remember a very similar thing happened with the  
> refinery last month. I know that people with 'important' local  
> authority jobs are getting special documentation to allow them to  
> get petrol when others cannot. You can't argue with that but is this  
> a training exercise for when this becomes the norm?
>
> I do agree that Tony is one of the Greatest in my lifetime, Maggie  
> was probably more important.
>
> Wayland.
>
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