[dundee] [jtsmoore@revolution-os.com: Re: Screening of Revolution OS]

[Andrew Clayton]

On Sat, 2003-07-19 at 16:34, Mark Harrigan wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2003 at 01:32:57AM +0100, Andrew Clayton wrote:
> > 
> > Personally, I started using Linux, because I wanted to run UNIX on my
> > PC. It grew from there....
> > 
> I'd say that's my real reason too but that's kinda wanting to really
> understand how the computer works... or should work.
> 
> <snip>
> > > can't be bothered to learn a little?! People should stay in their own little
> > > controlled world without sharp edges and potholes in that case.
> > > 
> > 
> > Which is why it's good to have the likes of SuSE, Red Hat, Mandrake and
> > Connectiva around. They pay people to do the stuff that other hackers
> > don't want to do. e.g docs, nicey nicey stuff etc
> > 
> > Also having the likes of IBM/HP/Oracle/SAP/CA  and many others, on board
> > will only help this situation.
> > 
> Now this I find interesting, yes these fine companies do invest in
> Linux but I don't see any that really invest in the user
> experience. 
> 
> Redhat funds some Kernel work and developer side stuff for
> Gnome especially work on ORBit the CORBA base behind Gnome's
> architecture. Nothing directly user orientated.
> 

gtk, bluecurve if you will, lots of stuff really...




> SuSE works on server side stuff like the OS/390 port and Opteron
> support. Nope.
> 

KDE


> Mandrake have a list of stuff they develop down the side of their home
> page most of which is developer or high performance server
> orientated. Don't think so.
> 

GUI admin stuff


> Connectiva is hard to find out about but I'd assume they would help
> Gnome in some way so they should be a good example. Maybe but I
> couldn't find anything, didn't look very hard mind.
> 

Internationalisation, GUI stuff...


> IBM, HP, Oracle, SAP and CA... I have a strange feeling this is all
> very server side.
> 

What directly effects the server will indirectly effect the desktop...
look at the 2.6 kernel, a lot of the scalability work, will also help
the desktop and smaller systems.

I'm pretty sure HP have deals with Ximian and CA also IIRC.

And just to not forget... Ximian....

Oh yeah and Sun, all the GNOME usability and access stuff....



> I agree that the application side is coming on very well but it's
> still not intended for "Mr Average" when installed they look and work
> in a way that will appeal to the average user but the install is
> pretty daunting. What the hell are partitions? I only have a hard

I say again... Linux (generally) is NO harder than Windows to install.


> disk? I've just bought a new graphics card/modem/cheap piece of
> generic Taiwanese junk how do I install it? Taking the case off freaks
> these people out enough, you then expect them to find out the chipset
> their particular card has, find out if it has a driver, recompile the

What about windows, default install, your running in 640x480, 256
colors, I mean c'mmon,

Oh and you'll need to download the nic driver before you can get on the
network... hmm, ok, modem, shit, needs a fscking driver....


> kernel or modify XFree86? Not gonna happen. I want a piece of software

XFree86... well, it is really a fine piece of software when you think
about it. Currently it's just lacking funding... 

XFree86 autoconfiguration has been talked about and is already somewhat
been done with kdrive.

 
Kernel.. well they can stick with the vendor kernel...


> to do whatever, do I need the source, rpm or deb? How do I use these
> files? Why isn't the latest version with magic feature A available for
> my pc? You mean there's different platforms? I thought it was
> all Linux? 
> 
> The only way to get around this is to change the architecture
> significantly as Apple have done. XFree86... out the door, kernel

XFree86/X11 won't be going anywhere soon, this has been discussed to
death on forum@xfree86.org.


> modification... gone, choice of desktop... nope, standard Unix
> filesystem, no no no. The minute a big distro comes out like that
> every Linux guru will be on Slashdot/Linuxnews calling it an
> abomination that is against everything they've ever fought for. I
> realise that gobolinux does the filesystem but that's a small
> component.

hmm... it's called windows....


> Note I say A Distro, there can't be more than one, companies won't
> sell identical distros because there's nothing to differentiate them
> from the crowd and users won't stand for differences, look at the Unix
> market of the 1980's to see why.
> 

Multiple distros are a Good Thing(tm), this is totally different to the
fragmentation of Unix; can you say GPL? 


> Unix was meant to be powerful, no-one ever said it should be easy, Linux

err, yeah.. exactly...


> was created as a replica of that. The only reason Linux has these nice
> looking apps is that nerds like shininess as much as power.
> 

Again this is where the likes of Red Hat, Ximian, SuSE and others come
in... they fund a lot of this "shininess".


> Mark
> 


--
Andrew