[dundee] Linux on the desktop

[Andrew Clayton]

On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 16:23, Martin Habets wrote:
>  --- Andrew Clayton <andrew at digital-domain.net> wrote: > On Sun, 2004-01-11 at 15:03, Martin
> Habets wrote:
> > > To explain more: a window manager takes care of the window boundaries and
> > > the menus that appear when clicking on them, and (optionally) a menu when clicking
> > > on the root window (i.e. the background).
> > > A display manager takes care of a toolbar, clickable icons, and virtual screens on
> > > the root window.
> > 
> > Nope.. thats all WM stuff...
> > 
> > I think your terminology is confused.
> > 
> > XDM/GDM/KDM are all display managers.... (unless I am completely
> > insane!)
> 
> I'm not confused, you are not insane. It's more that I'm using old *nix terminology,
> and you are using new Linux terminology. You prove the point that nowadays people don't
> even know the difference any more between an window manager and a display manager.
> No wonder it is so hard to find a proper solution to the current consistency problem.
> 


This for example http://www.rru.com/~meo/pubsntalks/xrj/xdm.html would
seem to suggest otherwise.... and I'm sure the basic philosophy behind X
hasn't changed much over the years.


> Motif you mention in you other email is an interesting example. If you install the mwm
> (Motif Window Manager) that is based on the 2.0 version of the Motif libraries you get
> a true window manager. I've never seen the 3.0 based version of mwm, so I can't tell if
> it has evolved into a display manager.
> Other window managers are olwm and things like twm, sawfish, aewm. olvwm is a display
> manager because it provides virtual screens.
> 

Interesting... I have used both olwn and olvwm, olvwm seemed to just be
olwm with virtual desktops... and why is it still called OpenLook
Virtual Window Manger, the key words being Window Manager. 

So your saying the purpose of a display manger is to provide virtual
desktops?.... maybe years ago they mistakenly also termed this "display
manager" but I'm 100% sure a display manager has historically been a
thing which manages displays/logins, whether local or remote.

And virtual desktop support is just a part of the window manager.. hmm,
just like olwn --> olvwm...
 

> ...
> 
> > > You are right, that is the de-facto standard today. But that has not always been the
> > > case, and X has allowed for servers that dictate policy. Deceased examples are the
> > > old DEC Alpha implementation and the Apollo (later HP I think) implementations.
> > > 
> > > As said, these are all gone now AFAIK. But X still has all the *Hints* APIs, and
> > > good applications are still not allowed to battle their window manager over the size
> > > or position of their windows for example.
> > > 
> > 
> > I've heard of WM hints, but not X hints.
> > 
> > Hmm... isn't that the WM dictating policy...
> 
> Yes, and no it is not nice. That is why good Linux developers don't do such things (and

Well where would you have policy dictated, the X server?


[snip]




Andrew