[dundee] Chrome://

[Rick Moynihan]

2008/2/27 Arron M Finnon <afinnon at googlemail.com>:
> Well some interesting feedback there, i suppose it could be worth
>  clarifying some things first and then take it from there.
>
>  The Linux Society website, is in no way designed to compete with tayLUG
>  website, or the mailing list.  It is it's little brother, and that's the
>  truth of it.
>
>  The reality is that the Linux Society has a constitution to promote
>  Linux to new and experienced users a like, and promote the adoption of
>  open source software as a core replacement to proprietary software.
>  (that's the official blurb out of the way).
>
>  This is where the line is sometimes blurry between LS and the Taylug.
>  The LUG is there as a User Group, and the society is there to get people
>  to use Linux, and help support them in that (which is the partnership
>  bit between the LUG and LS).  This is a multi-headed task in fairness,
>  the one thing i can say as a society man, is not all society members use
>  the mailing list, all though i continue to tell them this is by far the
>  best way to get support, it doesn't happen (maybe the sear number of
>  emails, or the top heavy technical side that sometimes is seen all
>  though i have never been subject or witnessed it).

Thanks for clarifying the duality between the LS and the LUG, but IMHO
this is not a rationale for them duplicating communities or resources.
 I'm not suggesting that this is the intention, merely that it's a
risk you/we should be aware of.

>  We have to accept as a community at large that to attract new people to
>  Linux we need to use all the tools that are available.  All though the
>  mailing list is a great resources, it's not a one size fit's all, and if
>  people are use to using a forum to get technical assistance, then we
>  should be offering that in combination.  In saying that though i'm no
>  great believer in forums either.  In the same vein we have also recently
>  used a bebo site for promoting Linux in Dundee, most of you will
>  probably never see it, but as a group we see a hell of a lot of
>  potential new adopters of Linux and if a social networking site floats
>  your boat then it's there.  However with the explosion in the Linux
>  desktop market, and embedded devices, and cheap laptops are bring a new
>  breed of Linux users,

I completely agree with the perceived problems (real or otherwise)
with mailing lists; and that they may not be the best mechanism for
attracting new users.  My point is more that  there isn't an awareness
of this split and that it will likely be a destructive one, leading to
two communities where you want one.

As you point out there are reasons to favour forums over mailing lists
for me these primarily boil down to:

- An apparent simplicity for new users (though in reality I think this
is merely a perception due to lack of familarity).
- Content is found better by search engines
- Content is integrated on the site (branding etc)

I personally favour lists over forums, but preferences aside the
important point is fracturing the community.  For example after
looking through the forum I saw a post about seeking solicitation from
"Pure Data" users at the art college.  Now, I happen to know (and will
post details to the list) that there are some Pure Data workshops
being organised at the DOJ.  If these messages were on the list I'd
have replied directly, but now the process is more convoluted.

Could this dichotomy not be resolved by integrating the Mailing List
within the site directly?  New users see something akin to a web forum
(but it's really a list behind it).  I seem to recall seeing this done
on some sites.

>  This is on a personal note, i also think that some of the recent, how
>  would i best describe it, heated debates, may have been better suited on
>  a forum rather than having every single member of tayLUG dragged through
>  it.  However that's a personal view and in no way is meant to be
>  critical, the fact that we are all passionate about this cause we
>  knowingly call and love as Linux is the most important thing.

I'm not convinced about a forum being more of a venue for a heated
debate than a list.  The risks of fracture during early stage
communities are nearly always destructive.  I suspect most people on
the list will use mail filters as and when required.

>  With regards to the wiki, my views on that are wiki's are as successful
>  as the users that use them.  I really would have to bow to Jason's
>  superior knowledge on this, has he has done research for the uni on it,
>  but if you only having a only a few people actively using them, then
>  they look and feel underused.  I think personally this is a more wait
>  and see with regards to if it would add benefit to the site, i think in
>  the future it will, but i think it rest on the more users using it.  i
>  like the ubuntu community documentation concept and that seems to work
>  well with forums.

The problems you describe with Wiki's apply equally to forums and the
articles/tips on the current site.  This was largely my point about
content being lost in the sites formalism.  Structural elements always
have an associated cost and organising content too formally too early
is often a mistake in a small community and leads to the situation you
describe.

I fail to see how the CMS is better at handling this evolution than a
Wiki.  Indeed I'd argue this is a primary reason why Wiki's have
proven more successful for organising communities than traditional
CMS's.  I don't know about you, but I seem to run into more dead
forums than wiki.

>  I apologise for the long winded response, and hope that this helps to
>  explain the plans for the site.

It does, and I hope you find my criticisms constructive and not too
disparaging of the good work done.  I'm obviously relatively new to
Tay-LUG and don't wish to upset anyone, but you asked my opinion. :-)
I don't have strong feelings on what is done, I just worry you'll
needlessly fall into some organisational anti-patterns.

All the best,

R.