[dundee] NoHelpDesk

Wed Jan 16 18:21:53 GMT 2008

I going to have to agree with Attila here, I use my time in various other ways, if I have a project to do, I'll try and do something that I'm already researching in my own time. I do however despise having  brands name and large corporate driven technology forced upon me, without any option to do a company neutral technology. Corporates and education don't mix, but try telling that that to any university, they think that's cook-coo, as they get a large 'wedge' of money from these same corporates...globalism  is here, and it starts even before you start working and spending $$$$ in the real world.

It's interesting to note, that microsoft are comming to speak on their road show,
if we we're to come up with out own 'open source road show' do you think the universities  on the list would jump at the chance to be educate people about the benefits of open software? maybe they would..maybe they wouldn't, it's definity worth looking into.

Again,  everything I have even know about tech, I've taught myself, be 
it off a forum, bbs, google, experimenting, writing code, reading a book 
or chatting in the pub with other uber geeks.

So pick and area, specialize, experiment, and the write something about it.

job done.

How ever, I also Agree with Tim, learning 6 or more programming languages,
is irrelevant and very stupid. a programming loop is a loop, only the
implementation changes between languages.

We've been learning lots of different implementations of the same concepts,
I would rather concentrate on concepts that focus on design patterns of
software development, rather than how to do a loop in 6 different languages.

I for one would like programmers to learn 1 or 2 languages very well, not 6
very badly, that doesn't really help anyone.

I was reading a game development book over xmas, it's got some very
interesting real world advice from it. All through  the book , the guys moans
about Microsoft libs, like direct X and direct 3d, but said he had
no choice because that's what his employer was using, and that's the
market they were developing for. This is still like this out in the real world,
whole software houses (non-unix shops) are still tied into microsoft world.
for now.... their hands are tied.

that's just a fact of life, so no doubt a university will concentrate on these
technologies. However, they are missing the point, cross platform code
is where's it at, write once, run anywhere.. or code you can port in
less time. 

However, a Uni to concentreate too closely on microsoft platforms, shoots itself
in the foot. Microsoft have always used rich libraries to abstract the programmer
from any heavy lifting work, so as you abstract, you loose whats actually going on within the machine. You've got so many layers, you don't know where the operating system strarts, or ends. That leads to bloat, and complexity, and lack of real knowlege from software developers. That's dangerous, you get quite complex applications , written in very poorly ways. I've seen it in the real
worlds..is aint pretty... but it works, so everyones happy...or are they?

look at the registry for instance, database, large, full of stuff? does anyone
understand it? no, that's why it's grows out of control. Open source
developers have a much harder introduction to coding, you have to operate
within the frame work laid out by programmers (if working on existing project).
They don't tollerate lamers, or idiots by anyone standards. (that's a good thing!)

Okay, I must admit .net is a INTERESTING technology, but with Microdroids
track record on security and security fixes, then having a distributed network
of .net servers , sounds to me like security meltdown city.

As for visual basic, it's lame,stupid, platform centric, and anyone who  thinks
it's useful rather than for prototyping applications is a fool. There, I just
said it had a use, can I have a job at Microsoft now?

There a whole other world of software choice, and that's the dark underbelly
of software provision, back handers, bribes , special discounts, you scratch my back, old boys networks, the list goes on. I was interest to read BECTA have said avoid vista and office 2007, perhaps the tide is turning.

we all know in 10 years time we're all going to be using...wait for it...

wait for it...

macs.  (running vista under emulation :-( )

;-)

Laters,
Lee

Attila Szomor <sabbath at freemail.hu> wrote:           Tim, if you want to sweat blood whilst you're at uni, then go to Eastern Europe and study there. I've come from that way. And i know that's not a good system.
 Yes, you learn about very important things deeply, but they also force you to do unnecessary things and soon you wanna commit suicide. 
 I'm not saying this Abertay 'low tide rowing' uni is the best place we can ever be, but not asking you to spend 168 hrs a week on uni work gives you time to
 "research", look after things you're interested in - not like in EE where you just loose your motivation for studying because of the way they torture you.
 All in all, you are right, but we have to be realistic and admit that there are only a few places around the world where you get exactly what you want.
 Yours faithfully,
 attila

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                                 Subject:         
 Re: [dundee] NoHelpDesk                                From: 
 "Tim Spencer" <samurai.mit at gmail.com>                                Date: 
 Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:45:03 +0000                                To: 
 "Tayside Linux User Group" <dundee at mailman.lug.org.uk>                                                To: 
 "Tayside Linux User Group" <dundee at mailman.lug.org.uk>                                CC: 

 this all true and well but if u raise the bar for a course say ethical hacking and countermeasures then i think that with the presumed greater understanding of technology one can at least teach courses which require a greater understanding of technology.   

 i mean i am not doubting abertays efficient business sheme but what i am failing to grasp is that lecturers fell sad about not being able to teach certain part of their subject, just like less ball who said we would not be able to learn about databases.   

 and then u have OOP, the whole thing was designed not to be called java but programming language hence force teaching student the simple think in several different languages is stupid. they went to a great  who ha to explain the idea behind each not from a java perspective. 

 i have learnt about for loops in: javascript, java, vb coldfusion, etc and i dont think that the idea behind it changes very much 

 i mean come on i signed up to learn about deep computing not become a frinking web designer or a general computing student 

 i want to learn

 and even 3rd year modules like netbeans or as it is called component based solutions only really teach u a bit of programing and the most is dragging and dropping but what if the interface changes well then most abertay students are fucked.   

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