[Glastonbury] an idea develops?

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Fri, Aug 01, 2003 at 03:01:54PM +0100, starline.design@ukonline.co.uk wrote:
> I really wanted to reply to this email as I was quite shocked by Martin's 
> apparently dismissive response to Mike's proposal.
> 
Please think _very_ hard indeed and review this thread fairly 
thoroughly.  Martin did something not unlike you suggest - over
twenty five years ago as an IT consultant working from Skye.

He may appear belligerent and bloody minded to many - but he
does have some of the life skills to back up his bloody mindedness.

He's not entirely against the idea - but he is, above all else,
a practical minded person.

> > The core idea of your vision: "London has work but no workers;
> > Glastonbury has workers but no work; let's find a way of putting one in
> > touch with the other" obviously has a certain validity.  

The idea of the LUGoG doing practical work and building up expertise
is good - but to cut it in the real world, against deadlines and with
clients breathing down your neck needs _real_ application and skill.

I'm a faceless office worker by day and a tireless Linux superhero
at nights and weekends :)  Edging Linux into the enterprise, even
with good reason, is proving hard and I'm having to put my work where
my mouth is.  I've spent the day taking two brand new Windows 2000
machines and putting Linux on them. This is the second day: yesterday
was installing Linux on an older machine, replacing hardware and doing
a test install on one of the new boxes.  To do that, I've had to show
that I know the issues with unsupported graphics cards, a network
card that's too new to fit the standard distribution - and fend off
queries from colleagues of "what's that for then, new machines, who's
getting those" every fifteen minutes.  This is hard, even with nine
years experience of running Linux and doing, on average an install 
a month for the last three months.  This is also not under intense
time pressure.

Compare that with someone who's heard about the benefits of LAMP and
a secure website and demands you produce the bones of one in a day, 
using hardware you've not seen before and a distribution you're 
unfamiliar with.  _That's_ Linux expertise: if you hold yourself up
as a group of experts, you'll get thrown that sort of challenge because
people have heard the buzzword but want the benefits NOW dammit.

[Or writing 200 pages of documentation in three formats within a week / 
drafting a training course to give to 15 people who've never considered
using anything other than a mouse to double click on files]
> 
> (And
> > attractiveness to the mandarins in local government who are not only
> > charged with advancing the common weal, but also have the key to the
> > public coffers; which is presumably what your paper is aiming for.)
Local government will buy Microsoft until constrained to do otherwise.
That's a fact of life at the moment.
> 
> Great. Bodies like the RDA are trying to develop the area (what's happening at 
> Morlands in the future?) and have the funds to support schemes which will help 
> local people. If the varied skillsets are there, based around LINUX, and a 
> constructive plan,then why not try to get something established. There was also 
> mention of LINUX education rather than purely business.

Start very small.  Get old PC's that are fit for nothing - turn them 
into secure firewalls / mailservers.  Put in a resilient file system
so that someone can hit the power switch and still recover.  Sell them
at cost to charities and the like.  Give one to your local care home
so that the elderly can email their grandchildren?  Get experience
with recalcitrant hardware.  Get experience with dumbing down Linux.

Use _only_ Linux for six months or a year (I've been doing this for
about eight years now :) ).  Change distributions a couple of times.
Hold an install day - each LuGOG member make a commitment to install
Linux ten times on various machines in the next six months.

Build your basic skills. Then diversify.  Say 15 members of the LuGOG.

Each of you gain expertise in three areas: divide up the following
as a suggested task list of general use to lots of people.  Try and
ensure that you have at least three people skilled in any one task -
that way you can say "our pool of experts" and know you have a couple of
others to rely on. [Three areas is one big topic or so below.]

Security

	Firewalls

	Computer forensics and data recovery

	Network security testing and fixing

Mail

	Mailservers

	Anti virus / anti spam

	Large scale mailing lists

Databases and transaction processing

	MySQL / Postgresql

	Apache and webservers

	PHP/Perl/CGI scripting

Creative arts

	Music

	Graphics

	Film

Press and prepress

	Document origination

	Format translation (including "archeology" for old file formats)

	Press preparation

Public opinion forming / community building

	User education and training

	Press coverage

	Lobbying

> > 
> > [Aside: a small group of us in this town have already been working on a
> > specific aspect of this for a couple of months now -- nothing to do with
> > the IT services sector, but the pre-press (translation, copy-editing,
> > indexing, proof-reading, type-setting) sector, which has traditionally
> > been handled this way by the London agencies servicing the publishing
> > houses.  Because in this area, the town *does* have significant spare
> > professional-level capacity.  And the concept of outsourcing the work
> > from London already exists.]
> 
> Lets build on this - as said there are a variety of skillsets amongst LINUX 
> users, and years of experience too. And there are people wanting to learn & 
> develop skills within a LINUX context seeing it as a future technology.
> > 

Get a user base and work from it.  Produce Linux solutions that work
and are maintainable.  Show people they can get support.
> I want to be ... what about LINUX used in graphics, media, music and education -
>  it isn't just about systems, though this is the heart (kernel) of it. And 
> LUGOG can be a forum for developing latent skills - wannabes cannabe...

Systems come first unfortunately.  Even if its only to tweak your
kernel / graphics card / disk throughput to get the max. from your
machine. [Or building a distributed render farm for povray / Blender
Cinelarra or whatever]
> > 
> > Secondly, LUGoG represents a bunch of amateurs, volunteers and neophytes
> > -- NOT as you would like to persuade the big-money-spenders, a
> > tightly-focussed group of professional IT consultants.  And the learning
> > curve in training people up may be steeper than you think.  Moreover,
> > it's not only in knowing how to use 'Linux' -- it's also in knowing how
> > to sell consultancy services in a professional market-place.
> 
Hard though it is, unfortunately I have to agree with the above.  You 
may need to get a few of you trained to LPI 1 standard / Red Hat 
Certified Engineer status just to get your foot in the door.  Two years
of solid practical Linux experience may be the minimum here.

> As said, Mikes a good salesman, others of you are Professionals in other 
> fields.Business seems to be a lot about projecting an image of confidence & 
> knowledge.

Bullshit fails quickly :(
> 
> Sitting in the ICT at the moment - pretty quiet here - i guess its how people 
> are approached and talked to... Lots of potential here. Of course, most of the 
> system is Windows, so if there is an attitude of conflict and derision to it, 
> then that will rub people up the wrong way. But there's a steady stream of 
> people coming in for email and stuff. Its getting to the point where everyone 
> needs a basic knowledge of computer use, and as you regularly condemn Microsoft 
> usege, then education thru LINUX would be beneficial.

It needs to be a no-brainer to provide Linux training facilities.  You 
also need the PR expertise to persuade those in power that you are not
going to subvert their business / undermine their status.  Understanding
would help but won't get past FUD.
> > 
> > Which brings me to another point: I'm afraid that despite the
> > over-liberal sprinkling of marketese and related terminology in
> > your paper ("diarise" ?  [No thank you, I've got a packet of Immodium
> > somewhere]) in your paper, the term "Glastonbury Collective" does not
> > immediately inspire thoughts of professionalism and excellence.
> > A bunch of pot-head programmers living under plastic sheets maybe; but
> > serious professionals?  Sadly: NO.

Collectives in King Arthur country - shades of Monty Python ...

But I am your King.  I didn't vote for you.  We're an 
anarcho-syndicalist collective ... {B-)

> 
> We're in it together - don't be a stick in the mud! I've been here 7 years too, 
> and the place does seem run down. So projects which can offer ways of personal 
> and 'collective' development should be considered. A few people here may have 
> rejected Capitalism (not my favorite word either) and good for them. But any 
> way to grow and promote a constructive image of the town through group effort 
> (collectively) and individually seems a good idea. Its better than condemning 
> it all and trying to resolve issues by more CCTV and surveillance (I wonder 
> what OS is used for these?). You would be surprised what latent or unexpressed 
> skills are in people.
> 
> Anyway, it seems that Glastonbury would be a base / iconic name, but the 
> potential for this project could encompass at least a 20 mile radius of 
> personal involvement from people.

Glastonbury could be a problem with trademark payments to Mr. Eavis :)
> 
> There are truths here certainly, but like I said, I felt that the experience of 
> working in London invaluable. There was some resistance to being remotely based 
> but the work still got done. I recently saw a program about a guy who had move 
> his business (THE LINUX CENTRE) from London to ORKNEY!!!Don't know if u are 
> aware of him. Sure his business developed in London initially, and he still 
> commuted to London during the week at times to meet clients, but - ORKNEY!? He 
> was doing ok. London is 3 hours away by car (3 days by horse drawn cart).Anyway 
> if there was a regular presence based in London acting as liason between the 
> team here and clients then this problem would be significantly covered.
> 
> As for clients coming to here - good premises, equipment, a professional 
> atmosphere - (good food Mike!) - that would give a good impression - plus they 
> could do Tai Chi or woodcarving in the evening and learn to relax!

Lovely thought - but probably unrealistic.  Glastonbury is a long way
from anywhere in the civilised world that lives within the M25 / M4
corridor.
> > 
> > But Linux services?  Only with very, *very* careful forethought,
> > in-depth knowledge of the Linux market, and extremely careful planning.
> > Carried out by professionals.
> 
>From a Linux zealot who lives in the unreal world :) 

Much of the above could be carried out by professionalised amateurs - 
most MCSE "professionals" and IT wannabes aren't that skilled, after all 
- but anyone doing this would have to show commitment, integrity and a 
proper degree of professional approach to "out professional" the 
established professionals. [Among ourselves, it's probably OK to just
"out weird the weird" but not in the wider world {B-) ]

HTH,

Andy