[Glastonbury] Strode Meeting [LONG]

[tim hall]

Hi all,

Thanks for explaining the issues a little more clearly. My concern is that 
Mike's energy and enthusiasm don't get blown out a second time.

On Friday 05 December 2003 02:03, Martin WHEELER wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, tim hall wrote:
[snip]
> > > (I remember you telling us that was what you intended to do; I don't
> > > remember the group giving you a mandate to do it in our name.)
> >
> > I for one think it would be great if Mike did.
>
> Strange as it may seem to you both, so do I.  As a self-appointed
> diplomat with an apparent interest in brokering 'deals' for the group,
> Mike knows what he's good at.  (If brokering deals is what we're all
> about.) But permit me to say, that as the group's self-appointed cynical
> critic, so do I.
> But that's only us.
> The real question here is: what do others in the group think?

Fair enough.

> My personal experience of both the college as a corporate body, and
> that particular member of staff, would indicate that their interest in
> us (and Linux) may not be as straightforward as it would appear to be
> to most other members of the group.

> [Love your naivety, Tim.  You're *soo-o-o* trusting.]

Er, not compared to most of the Glastonbury 'alternative' populace. 

> But that's representativeS in the plural -- not just one lecturer.
> Who's there representing the college administrative staff?  The
> technical support staff?  (Ferociously anti-Linux only five years
> ago.)  The students?  The curriculum development team?  Locally?
> County-wide?  Nationally?
> All questions I would like to see answered before committing the
> group to rushing into anything.

Bear in mind that Linux has changed dramatically in the last five years. Five 
years ago very few people knew about it and it's hardly surprising that those 
who did would have had enormous misconceptions.

> Tim, if you want a job lecturing at Strode (and I get the impression
> you do -- you seem to see it as a glamorous opportunity, rather
> than the mindless slave labour of the reality -- ask anyone who's done
> it); you've got to show yourself as being more capable than anyone else
> there already on post and terrified of losing their job who can say:
> "Oh, that's easy.  I can do that.  These guys have shown us what's
> what; now we'll do it ourselves."  It's your product familiarity
> (personal skills) that has to show -- not the product itself.
> Personally, I think your skills are far better employed within the user
> group -- but then, these are just my personal opinions.

Thankyou. 
I admit that the thought of it presenting some kind of 'opportunity' albeit a 
less than glamorous one had crossed my mind. However, I'm no lecturer by any 
stretch of the imagination, plus my timekeeping is apalling :-] Forgive me 
for a having a limited sense of my own self-worth when it comes to the local 
employment market.

> What's going on here is that the college has realised it's got to get
> itself up to speed -- "hey, there's a bunch of amateurs at St. Dunstan's
> in Glastonbury doing better than we are, we better get our ass into gear
> before we lose creddibility -- and clients -- to them".
> If the user group has anything at all to 'sell' here, it's our
> *expertise* more than anything else.
> Hence the need for a cracking demonstration.
> We're *proud* of what we do; and of what we _can_ do; and how we do it.
> And what we're achieving on our own.
>
> > For anyone from Strode College I would have thought that a look at what
> > Steve has set up at St Dunstan's would be a pretty good advert
>
> That's almost certainly what alerted them in the first place ..
> (They don't naturally attract the sort of staff to produce a home-grown
> effort, unfortunately.)
>
> > also his
> > perspective as someone already involved in education, and who has also
> > done some sums might be useful information.
>
> Undoubtedly.  (But also available from multiple sources on the web
> -- as are the experiences of other FE colleges in this area.)

OK, well I understand and concur with what you say here. I've have learned so 
much about Linux and computing in general from the group meetings at St. 
Dunstans. I have looked into the courses at Strode and realised that I had 
already taught myself most of what they were offering simply by reading help 
files. So they're a bit late if they're worried about losing clients.

> > I don't remember the group deciding
> > that we were going to 'put on a demo' for them either.
>
> Why else would they be coming to visit us?  It's not a question of
> deciding -- it's a question of necessity.  No?
>
> > We aren't selling the group to the college.
>
> I beg to differ.
> You may not want it; or see it that way; but that's effectively what's
> happening.
>
> > We are simply a local resource,
> > which they can choose to use or not as they see fit.
>
> I'm too experienced and too cynical to believe that.
> They want something from us.  And I want to know what it is.

OK, this is where I differ. Perhaps it would be more appropriate for me to 
say that I don't see it that way. I do think you might be jumping to 
conclusions here on the basis of what may have been a private discussion. So 
far I don't see that this constitutes an 'official' approach from Strode 
College. I get the impression that this is one member of staff who is after 
some information. You are right when you say that I don't have a grasp on the 
politics of the situation and I'm not sure that I really want to either.

> > Furthermore, here we
> > are, discussing the issue openly on the list.
>
> Good.  As it should be.
>
> > I think it's a great idea
>
>  .. so do I.
>
> > & I fully support Mike in taking this initiative.

Hear hear.

I await the further opinions of the group :-)

tim hall