Offtopic ancient thread Re: [Gllug] Re: Anarchy (was Geforce2)

[Richard Cottrill]

I think you're wrong. Unfortunately this is such a big question I really
can't do it justice. Jarred Diamond's book 'Guns, Germs, and Steel' took a
thousand or so pages and still left a few gaps. Still a spectacular read
though.

The big groups of people will always be able to exert influence over smaller
groups of people - all other things being equal. Think of the boxing maxim
'a good big man will beat a good small man'.

I can think of one example without straining too hard. See what's happening
in Papua New Guinea (not exactly a hot news topic I grant you) where
BHP/(whomever they merged with) runs roughshod over the local villages all
the time. The only exception has been in Bougainville where the locals have
taken up arms. If this were not a 'limited' conflict then BHP would have
been able to hire mercenaries to bomb the villagers back into the dust. In
fact the [notoriously corrupt] Papua New Guinea government tried to do
exactly that, and would have, but for some overdue intervention by the
indigenous military (who may just have been pissed that they didn't get the
cash) who staged a coup d'etat.

Richard

> -----Original Message-----
> From: gllug-admin at linux.co.uk [mailto:gllug-admin at linux.co.uk]On Behalf
> Of William Palfreman
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 7:03 AM
> To: gllug at linux.co.uk
> Subject: Offtopic ancient thread Re: [Gllug] Re: Anarchy (was Geforce2)
>
>
> On Mon, 28 Jan 2002, Jonathan Harker wrote:
>
> > On Monday 28 January 2002 19:04, William Palfreman wrote:
> > > These elected people don't do a single thing for me, or at
> > > least not a single thing that I wouldn't rather sort out for
> myself on my
> > > terms.  Even if I did get something out of it it is still a useless
> > > burden of a way to live.
> > <snip>
> >
> > Right.
> >
> > So you are going to shrug off the roads, trains, airports, landfills,
> > sanitisation, sewerage, hospitals, health care, schooling of
> your children,
> > policing, etc. ad infinitum as a burden?
>
> Huh?  Only the roads are fully government run in this country.
> Everything else is either a mixture of independent and government or just
> government-influenced.  Never noticed all those security guards around
> today?  What is it, >50% of kids going to private schools in London now?
>
> > I suppose they're crap anyway,
> > right? I am dying to know how you're going to sort all that out
> by yourself.
>
> Pay them to do it properly with a small amount of the money I'll save by
> not paying any tax.  Yes, government "services" are crap in this country.
>
> > Without elected government, even a crap one, we'd have companies in
> > charge.
>
> Assertion.  When has that actually happened?  Plenty of nice countries
> have been ruined by their government.  When governments have generally
> left people alone, not persecuted anyone, not taxed them to death or
> invented rubbish new laws by the ton, were the "companies in charge"?
> No.  What normally happens is large chunks of sociaty lift themselves out
> of poverty and people call it a miracle.
>
> > I know which I'd rather have. At least a crap government can be voted
> > out next time round. I won't even mention the millions of people last
> > century who died to preserve your right to vote. Oops...
>
> Twit.  It's not the vote that counts, it's the freedom.  Hitler was voted
> into power too.  Anyway, your talking about a government being crap and
> waiting 5 years to vote it out, assuming millions of probably uninterested
> people agree with you.  I'm talking about one service provider
> being crap,
> and you calling them up *that day*, canceling your account, and
> signing up
> for someone else then and there.  It's simple.  Your way takes three to
> five years and needs a good 10 million to agree with you.  My way can be
> done in half an hour.
>
> > Nobody said democracy was perfect (well maybe some do), but in
> the face of
> > the alternatives, it's perhaps the best compromise we've come
> up with so far.
> >
> > Sorry folks, I couldn't resist...
>
> Eh?  Couldn't resist what?  Look, no offense or anything, but this isn't
> some kind of big joke.  I wouldn't say anything about it normally, because
> I know how a lot of people see the government as an essentially parental
> figure.  But the thread led onto it naturally, and in the end it makes me
> feel sad to see so many very good technical people plodding along
> believing in the almost messianic virtues of a group of people who have
> bascially done nothing, just found themselves in a "job" where they think
> they are able to invent laws and take any money they want and use as
> much force as they like to get their way.  An all this comes about
> from people thinking a vote makes things ok.
>
> --
> William Palfreman
>
>
> --
> Gllug mailing list  -  Gllug at linux.co.uk
> http://list.ftech.net/mailman/listinfo/gllug
>


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