[Gllug] Re: [OT] speaking French in France

[Robert Bannocks]

gllug-request at gllug.org.uk wrote:

>Message: 1
>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:55:03 +0100
>From: Sarah Ewen <sarah at thaum.net>
>Subject: Re: [Gllug] [OT] speaking French in France
>To: Greater London Linux Users Group <gllug at gllug.org.uk>
>
>Oh, come on.
>
>There are just as many different types of people in every
>country as there are sides to a story. Do we have to sit here
>ranting?
>
>I'm chomping at the bit to regail you all with the wonderful
>experiences I've had using my school french, but perhaps instead
>we should just all agree to disagree? It doesn't sound like 
>people will be swayed and I'm just going to get annoyed hearing
>any more replies about unhelpful French people.
>
>Perhaps swinging the topic round to people who are unhelpful 
>when you try to speak Linux to them would be an interesting 
>diversion 
>
>  
>
Whilst what you say is true in a sence is also true that there are 
significant variations in the attitude that
people of diffrent nations take to others.  I find that what has been 
said about the french is true.  They are
very obstruse whether they are speaking french, english or anything else 
for that matter, both in England
france or else where.

There are of course very nice and very unplesant french people and very 
nice and very unplesent
English people, on average the french are far more obtruse and difficult 
than others.

My attitude to all this is to regard it as a charistic of that nation - 
if you do not like it do not
go there, if you do not like the french way why are you going there.  If 
you have to through
work then put the price up.  It is not that diffrent in the UK - we are 
very intollerent of
language disfunctionality in English.  If  you do not like that then you 
should not come to the UK.

>Message: 3
>Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 11:13:10 +0100
>From: "Martin A. Brooks" <martin at clues.ltd.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Gllug] [OT] speaking French in France
>To: Greater London Linux Users Group <gllug at gllug.org.uk>
>  
>

>On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 10:55, Sarah Ewen wrote:
>
>  There are just as many different types of people in every

>> country as there are sides to a story. Do we have to sit here
>> ranting?
>  
>
>
>When I'm working in Norway I always feel profoundly ignorant.  Everyone
>speaks fluent English.  Most norwegian people speak at least one other
>scandanavian language, too.
>  
>
I think you are seeing things with slightly rose tinted glasses.  Norway 
is a staggaringly bueatfull country and I have found
most of the people very freindly and helpfull.  However it is simply not 
true to say they all speak fluent English.  Most under
about 60 years old and can speak basic english at a sufficent level to 
communicate about basic needs, eg locations, directions etc;
however, when you get on to more complex topics then their ability to 
speak english shows it limits.  Their vocabulary tends to be (not
supprisingly) limited to works that are close or in both languages and 
their ability to express the relationships between things,
eg. in space and time is often limited alough this can be easily worked 
around with a bit of verboseness or rephrasing.
Do not assume that a fluency in basic structures implies a competence in 
the language.

Also bear in mind that Norwegian, Sweedish and Danish especially when 
spoken rather than written are very similiar and it is
far easier for a norwrgian to learn Sweedish or Danish than it is for an 
English person to learn French or Spanish.
Bear in mind also that that Bokmal (the most common form of Norwegian) 
has a heavy danish influence.

>Even worse I have a French fiancee, and my French is awful.  As we have
>a long term plan of moving to Norway, I _am_ putting a little effort
>into learning norwegian, though.
>  
>
I would put a lot in - you will be well rewarded.  Norwegian is not that 
hard to learn finding somewhere to learn it may be more
of a challenge in our own crippled Education system.

>Yours, stupidly,
> -- Martin A. Brooks <martin at clues.ltd.uk> Clues Ltd 
> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 
> 11:56:22 +0100 From: Stig Brautaset <stig at brautaset.org> Subject: Re: 
> [Gllug] [OT] speaking French in France To: gllug at gllug.org.uk On Thu, 
> Sep 02, 2004 at 11:13:10AM +0100, Martin A. Brooks wrote:
>
>>> As we have a long term plan of moving to Norway
>>    
>>
>
>Can I ask, just out of curiosity, why? Feel free to answer in private if
>you don't want to spill the beans to the list.
>
>Stig
>
>  
>
Start with www.visitnorway.com

>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 12:02:00 +0100
>From: "Martin A. Brooks" <martin at clues.ltd.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Gllug] [OT] speaking French in France
>To: Greater London Linux Users Group <gllug at gllug.org.uk>
>
>On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 11:56, Stig Brautaset wrote:
>  
>
>>> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 11:13:10AM +0100, Martin A. Brooks wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>> > As we have a long term plan of moving to Norway
>>>      
>>>
>>> 
>>> Can I ask, just out of curiosity, why? Feel free to answer in private if
>>> you don't want to spill the beans to the list.
>>    
>>
>
>It's a very nice country.  A greater land mass than the UK with less
>people than London - no housing shortage so no artificially high prices.
>
>It gets proper weather.  30c in summer and -15c in winter are not
>uncommon.
>
>Healthcare is the nearly the best in Europe, ditto education.  Sane
>government. Public transport that can cope with the weather.  Excellent
>communications infrastructure.  Clean power, no fossil or nuclear
>energy. Sane employment laws with equal consideration for men and women.
>
>
>  
>
Oh.

Well bear in mind that although Norway has some of the highest mountins 
in europ it also
has the highest taxes in europe.  All of which pays for the Publuc 
transport, education, etc.  I am not sure what you mean
by excelent communications infrastructure.  But bear in mind that there 
are only 5 trains a day between the 2 biggest
cities in Norway and that includes the sleeper train.

> For example, a norwegian friend of mine has 48 _weeks_ paternity leave
> on 80% of his regular salary.

Yes for which those people who choose not to have children have to
subsidise heavily through their high taxes.


> -- Martin A. Brooks <martin at clues.ltd.uk> Clues Ltd 
> ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 
> 12:05:21 +0100 From: Tethys <tet at createservices.com> Subject: Re: 
> [Gllug] [OT] speaking French in France To: Greater London Linux Users 
> Group <gllug at gllug.org.uk> Stig Brautaset writes:
>
>>>On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 11:13:10AM +0100, Martin A. Brooks wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>> As we have a long term plan of moving to Norway
>>>      
>>>
>>>
>>>Can I ask, just out of curiosity, why? Feel free to answer in private if
>>>you don't want to spill the beans to the list.
>>    
>>
>
>I can't speak for Martin, but I'm considering it simply because it's
>a nice place. Low population density, high standard of living (albeit
>with accompanying high taxes), the people speak better English than
>most of the population of the UK...
>  
>

It is very nice but bear in mind that population density can be very 
misleading.  My norwegian freind reminds
me that although Norway may be huge compared to the UK only 20 percent 
of the land mass is habitable.
The distances and time to travel between places can be enormous.  e.g. 
6.5 hours from Oslo to trondheim
a distance of about 300 miles for which there are only 5 trains a day.  
I could quote many more similar examples.
Also remember alcohol is extortionatly expensive in norway ~ 6 gpb per 
pint (and much else of scandanavis for that matter).

>Norway and Sweden are definitely my favourite countries that I've
>visted, and I'm seriously considering moving to Scandinavia in the
>future.
>  
>
Me too.  If you are considering moving you should deffinitly learn at 
least basic norwegian.

>Tet
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>  
>


-- 
Gllug mailing list  -  Gllug at gllug.org.uk
http://lists.gllug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/gllug