[Gllug] VACANCY: Junior Systems Support for Unit.tv

[Jose Luis Martinez]

On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 10:09 AM, Paul Lee <paul at ma1.se> wrote:
> Jason Clifford wrote:
>
>>
>> And saving them from wasting their valuable time on an application for a
>> job they would not accept anyway. If the maximum a company is willing to
>> pay is £16K I would argue that it is dishonest to invite applications
>> from those who would not accept a job at that salary.
>>
>> By posting the salary up front, whether as a single figure or a range,
>> the potential employer enables applicants to make an informed decision
>> as to whether to spend time and effort applying for the position.
>>
>
> I can't help but feel that posting very low salaries for Linux system
> administration roles is a kind of veiled racism/ageism.

???

How is this?  A job is posted, a salary is offered, you either take it or not.

>
> What the employer is saying is that they don't have a viable business
> model so they are in some hoping to be subsidised by taking on people
> from overseas who can be expected to work for less money.

You are sorely mistaken. People from overseas are normally more
qualified in average and it takes little for them (er ... us) to
figure out the market conditions. When I was looking for my first job
here in the UK I got offered peanuts several times and I simply did
not take the jobs.

>
> I've seen a marked increase in for example Polish staff (as in the
> building and construction industry). Don't get me wrong, these people
> are very able and hard working in many cases, but they are undoubtedly
> being exploited by UK employers and are undercutting many UK based
> candidates.

Exploited? We are talking graduates with Engineering diplomas or
equivalent expertise. Anybody with such background that allows to be
exploited in the EU has no excuse frankly. Polish people have as much
right as anybody to work in the UK, so professionals locally based
have to deal with that reality (train more,  become self employed,
lower salary expectations perhaps).

This trend that you notice is not a new thing, it has been happening
for the last 5 or 10 years in all major corporate IT shops, and is not
only competition from  EU countries, what should really irk people in
the UK and EU is people working from abroad (mostly India, but also
other locations) by means of global corporate networks or the
Internet, they pay no taxes locally and do not contribute to the local
economy directly but are putting people in the UK and EU out of work
while people in the EU can't show up in India or Singapore to apply
for a job in equal terms.

>
> Even if a low paying employer takes on an older member of staff
> (unlikely) they will hope that he has a family of some description, so
> their business model can be subsidised by the State with tax credits and
> other benefits.
>

Interesting idea, I have never known of an employer doing such
calculations. Having being involved in the hiring of people here in
the UK and being trained in the generalities of how to hire people
here , such considerations would be illegal, I think few employers
would risk it.

> These are the downsides of globalisation, yes we get cheap goods from
> China , but we also have the destruction of professions and the middle
> classes with more or less every "career" reduced to a casual, "burger
> flipping" level of existence.

Well, yes, but we people living in rich countries were (and still are)
 way overpriced (which is reflected in our insane levels of
consumerism and waste). People in India bill one fifth of what a
person in the UK would bill for the same kind of job. Such economic
disparity is simply unsustainable once economic relationship become
more fluid...

>
> And when I was employed in the Web Hosting, Domain industry I had to put
> up with grumbles from Sysadmin / programmers on twice these salary levels!

Yes, we tend to be grumpy :-D

>
> Of course if the low paying employer is providing substantial training
> with a view to the candidate attaining some kind of certification then
> it *might* be worthwhile. However every IT role I've know has been "self
> training."

Well, that is the point of lowly paid positions, the employer gets
help for a while fully aware that the turnover of personnel is high
because they leave for a better job as soon as they are more
proficient.


>
> Sorry rant over! My ten cents worth! :-)
>
> Regards
>
>
> Paul Lee
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