[Gllug] [Long] Down-under response. Was: File On 4 on waste in Govt computing projects

[general_email at technicalbloke.com]

Christopher Hunter wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-03-03 at 02:45 +0000, JLMS wrote:
>   
>> On Tue, Mar 2, 2010 at 11:47 PM, David L Neil <GLLUG at getaroundtoit.co.uk> wrote:
>>     
>>> On 03/03/10 10:52, Richard Jones wrote:
>>>       
<snip>
> It's pretty much a given that the current crowd of criminals have pi**ed
> away any wealth this country ever had and run the economy so far into
> the red that we will never recover, unless the debts are written off -
> like they have been for so many third world countries.  Financially,
> we're worse off than much of the third world - it's just that we have
> the "financial acumen" to hide the fact.  Gordon Brown's ONLY ability is
> being able to lie - about the economy, about his own snout in the
> trough, about his personal dealings with the staff forced to work for
> him, and even about his own sexuality...
>   

Rubbish, you're being utterly melodramatic. We've been far worse off
than this before and recovered and we will again. Making a comparison
between us and third world countries (itself a bit of a misnomer these
days) in need of debt relief is totally OTT. The countries the G7
granted debt relief to had yearly interest payments in excess of their
GDP, our payments are about 13% and this is a bad year. I don't see how
you can claim with a straight face that "we're worse off than much of
the third world" when we so objectively aren't, seriously how many
children have you lost to malaria and typhoid eh? And what the hell does
Gordon Brown's sexuality have to do with anything?!


> This country no longer has any kind of manufacturing base worth
> mentioning - it was killed by the massive inflation through the 60s and
> 70s and by trades unions making British companies uncompetitive against
> even our immediate neighbours, let alone the rest of the world.
> Government support for industry became non-existent, so all the major
> manufacturers moved abroad.  We used to lead the world in science,
> technology and engineering, but nowadays we even fall way below the
> Italians!  
>   
Well if British manufacturing had survived the 70s completely unscathed
it still would have been royally screwed by Deng Xiaoping a few years
later anyway so it matters little, it's not like Britain is unique in
having lost manufacturing capacity. While there is such an enormous
disparity in labour costs across the world you will always see basic
manufacturing moving to where it is cheapest, it has little or nothing
to do with unions, they are even more powerless than the government to
stop that and really, why should they?...

There's a school of though that runs: If manufacturing needs supporting
then sod it, it's costing us more money than it makes.

Really Chris where is the difference between government "support" (aka
subsidy) of the failing manufacturing industries and the welfare state
you so despise? Government support of an industry means taking tax money
from individuals and spending it propping up businesses that cannot
sustain themselves within an open market. Personally I can see a case
for this from time to time, but not often and I am VERY surprised to see
you are in favour of it, given our previous conversations. What you're
basically saying is "My countrymen and I are unwilling to pay more for
British made products therefore we would like to be taxed more and that
money given to British manufacturers." - you see how that kind of breaks
the virtuous circle?

> years).  I can't find anywhere else I'd rather live.  
>
>   
So despite being in a terrible, sub Italian, mess it's still the best
country in the world? Phew! ;)


Roger.
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