[Herts] Linux in schools - cont

Tue Jul 8 16:46:00 2003

  In the interests of sensible message headers and threading - I have 
restarted this message thread with a new subject.
Copied from part of "RE: [Herts] Interesting article"   -  TonyF
------------------------------------------------------------------

I suggest you try to get 3 or 4 computers allocated to Linux and create 
a small network independant of the main network. This will be -
a) Easier and less restrictive for you
b) Less challenging for the school and staff
c) Avoids some nasty authentication problems
d) Few support issues

When it's all working and being used you can start talking about linking 
it to the main Windoze network, but that bit won't be easy, either 
technically or politically. When you move on in a couple of years, what 
happens to support? (But then there's always the Herts lug :-)  )

The "CD only" install systems I have seen - and maybe Knoppix too - 
require hard disk space for their file system. Otherwise of course 
there's no way to save files, all a bit pointless.

XPde looks to have great potential, but it's currently only beta. 
Judging by the July03 Linux Magazine article it's not yet good enough 
for the environment you're talking about.

Tony F

PS Odd that people who want a secure network should purchase Win98 
licences!!
>  
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Thank you for your considered response. Please see my answers below.
> 
> Anybody else have anything to add?
> 
> To minimise shock I am considering an XPDE (http:/www.xpde.com) WM,
> on a Knoppix CD.
> The sticking point will be getting the admin to add necessary fields
> like uid and gid to enable POSIX compatibility
> (http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:eeL2Zc5uQ5wJ:www.interlegis.gov.
> br/produtos_servicos/20021023023319/view+linux+PAM+windows+domain+netw
> ork&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
> 
> Part of the reason I am doing this is detailed below, however we are
> getting a new headteacher and possibly a new head of ICT next year...
> who may be vulnerable to suggestion.
> 
> It should be said that one ICT teacher is so anti-everything that she
> admitted that while they have StarOffice on the network... they won't
> let anyone use it.
> 
> Oliver
> 
> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: herts-admin@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>> [mailto:herts-admin@mailman.lug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Tony Friis
>>> Sent: 06 July 2003 18:27
>>> To: herts@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>> Subject: Re: [Herts] Interesting article
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Linux in school would seem a good idea to me - but you need to be
>>> clear  of your objectives?
>>> The advice to school from the LEA is likely to be that they don't 
>>> support Linux.
> 
> 
> The line when I spoke to an ICT analyst (wonder what he analyses) at
> CSF (Children, Schools and Families for the unititiated here) was
> that they have no problem with Linux, but they would suggest that the
> school ensures they have the expertise to maintain any installation.
> 
> He suggested that I speak to Hitchin Boys who went Linux
> server-side... perhaps they would give a recommendation to my school!
> 
> 
>>> Is it for general school use, additional/alternative to Windoze?
> 
> 
> Targetted at 6th form... for two reasons
> 
> 1) Just got donated a load of Dells (PII 300Mhz 128Mb [I think]) from
> a local company. These have CD-ROM drives, unlike the rest of the
> school's computers which are RM machines. I would like to trial a
> customised Knoppix on the premise that it won't write anything to the
> HD.
> 
> 2) The word is that the school did purchase a new Win98 license for
> every box... which considering we were given about 25 computers would
> be a sizable chunk.  While I don't want to make the staff look stupid
> I would like to point out the benefits OSS can bring to donated
> machines.
> 
> In line with using Knoppix, I would like to offer it as an
> alternative to Windoze, for now.
> 
> 
>>> Is it for more computer literate students to get access to more
>>> free  software?
> 
> 
> Yes and no.
> 
> 
>>> Primary or Secondary?
> 
> 
> Secondary (http://www.stanborough.herts.sch.uk but please do not
> contact the staff!)
> 
> 
>>> What sort of security is required, are some of the kids likely to
>>> play  cracking games?
> 
> 
> The school currently has bought a very weak, very buggy (VB6) and
> very expensive network system, including new network hardware, SLA,
> shell software to replace explorer.exe, re-imaging software and
> workstation management administration software. Man I would like to
> have been the guys who suckered them (CSE). 
> 
> Reasonable security is requried, at least to the level provided by
> the shell replacement. This will only list files of certain
> extensions and only offer applications set up by the administrator
> (who incidentally could probably be bribed to do anything with
> alcohol).
> 
> Are the choices for large contracts limited in any way by the LEA? My
> head of year said four years ago (after me insulting RM) that RM was
> the lesser of several evils.
> 
> 
>>> What's your involvement? Student, Parent, teacher, governor?
> 
> 
> Student 
> 
> Y13 next year (2003-2004 academic year).
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> I've been a secondary school governor for about 15 years and have
>>> never  really been able to get involved with the computers. The
>>> staff tend not  to be experts but do like to be in control!
> 
> 
> Oh yes... the other people here have no idea...
> 
> 
>>> They had a network problem once which I arranged to sort out for
>>> them,  but when it came to it they wouldn't let me have the admin
>>> password,  they wouldn't even log on as admin for me, so I couldn't
>>> sort it.
>>> 
>>> Tony
>>> (Friis - not the other one 
>>> 
>>> Oliver Cole wrote:
>>
>>>> >  
>>>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> > Hash: SHA1
>>>> > 
>>>> > Lol, lets start a HLUG /. !
>>>> > 
>>>> > I am looking at trying a Linux solution for some of the computers
>>>> > at my school... but I'd like to discuss it with some people more
>>>> > knowledegable than me. Will there be meetings over the summer? Is
>>>> > it the kind of thing you discuss?
>>>> > 
>>>> > Oli
>>>> > 
>>>> > ps - just noticed the article is relevant... some good points in
>>>> > there, I should take note.
>>>> > 
>>>> > - -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
>>>> > Version: 3.1
>>>> > GCS d-(--) s-:-(:) a--- C++ UL++++ P(+) L++(+) E--- W+++ N+(++)
>>>> > o++ K? w+(++) O? M(+) V? PS+++ PE- Y+>++ PGP++>+++ t* 5+ X R>+ tv
>>>> > b++(+++) DI+ D+ G+ e h-- !r y?
>>>> > - ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>>>> > 
 >>>>>>>> snip - non-school messages removed