[Herts] Linux in schools - cont
Tony Friis
herts at mailman.lug.org.uk
Wed Jul 9 23:46:00 2003
I think you may be a bit ambitious. If you get the small network working
first you should be able to link it to the rest of the network when
everyone's ready. Another way of doing this might be a Samba client, but
it depends on your Windows security.
Security works most easily if passwords are the same. If your network is
small it won't be too big a problem keeping them the same.
However enough of my pessimism, here are a few positive suggestions!
I think the issue with the HD writing is to emphasise that you won't be
INSTALLING anything. Writing will be just like any other file.
If you can't use XPde you might look at adjusting KDE or Gnome, both of
which I believe can be made Windoze look alikes, though not as good
looking as XPde.
Don't let me put you off your plans, which you've obviously thought
about and worked on. And it sounds as though some at least of the staff
are a little more enlightened than the ones I've come across.
I wish you the best of luck.
Tony
Oliver Cole wrote:
>
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>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: herts-admin@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>[mailto:herts-admin@mailman.lug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Tony Friis
>>Sent: 08 July 2003 10:54
>>To: herts@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>Subject: [Herts] Linux in schools - cont
>>
>>
>> In the interests of sensible message headers and threading - I
>>have restarted this message thread with a new subject.
>>Copied from part of "RE: [Herts] Interesting article" - TonyF
>>------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>I suggest you try to get 3 or 4 computers allocated to Linux and
>>create a small network independant of the main network. This will
>>be -
>>a) Easier and less restrictive for you
>>b) Less challenging for the school and staff
>>c) Avoids some nasty authentication problems
>>d) Few support issues
>
>
> True. However, I am then cut off from printing and [inter|intra]net
> access, some of the key features of our existing system. People will
> also not wish to remember a new user/pwd pair.
>
>
>>When it's all working and being used you can start talking about
>>linking it to the main Windoze network, but that bit won't be
>>easy, either technically or politically. When you move on in a
>>couple of years, what happens to support? (But then there's always
>>the Herts lug :-) )
>
>
> Not easy at all, which is why I think I should start them off on the
> main network...
>
> Support is the major thing that is in the back of my mind... maybe
> the admin could be persuaded to brush up on his Linux knowledge (he
> used to use Mandrake at home). I think it is the only thing (apart
> from resistance and idiocy) that could scupper this project.
>
>
>>The "CD only" install systems I have seen - and maybe Knoppix too -
>> require hard disk space for their file system. Otherwise of course
>> there's no way to save files, all a bit pointless.
>
>
> Well, we all have directories on the server... part of the Windoze
> network... and HDs get returned to original state by the workstation
> software anyway. I would like to start off with a CD boot system,
> because it means that I don't have to worry about getting machines
> dedicated to Linux... until it becomes popular people still have the
> option of which OS. I think that no HD writing may be the only way to
> get the proposal past the headteacher and head of ICT.
>
>
>>XPde looks to have great potential, but it's currently only beta.
>>Judging by the July03 Linux Magazine article it's not yet good
>>enough for the environment you're talking about.
>
>
> Oh. That's... not good. The reason I would like to use it is to
> minimize shock to the lusers. And the screenshots looked so good...
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
>
>>Tony F
>>
>>PS Odd that people who want a secure network should purchase Win98
>>licences!!
>
>
> Well, they want a secure network in that they can claim to fulfill
> their obligations under the DPA... I can see security vulnerabilities
> without even touching a mouse or keyboard.
>
>
>>>
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>>>Thank you for your considered response. Please see my answers
>>>below.
>>>
>>>Anybody else have anything to add?
>>>
>>>To minimise shock I am considering an XPDE (http:/www.xpde.com)
>>>WM, on a Knoppix CD.
>>>The sticking point will be getting the admin to add necessary
>>>fields like uid and gid to enable POSIX compatibility
>>>(http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:eeL2Zc5uQ5wJ:www.interlegis.
>>>gov.
>>>br/produtos_servicos/20021023023319/view+linux+PAM+windows+domain+
>>>netw ork&hl=en&ie=UTF-8)
>>>
>>>Part of the reason I am doing this is detailed below, however we
>>>are getting a new headteacher and possibly a new head of ICT next
>>>year... who may be vulnerable to suggestion.
>>>
>>>It should be said that one ICT teacher is so anti-everything that
>>>she admitted that while they have StarOffice on the network...
>>>they won't let anyone use it.
>>>
>>>Oliver
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: herts-admin@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>>>>[mailto:herts-admin@mailman.lug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Tony Friis
>>>>>Sent: 06 July 2003 18:27
>>>>>To: herts@mailman.lug.org.uk
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Herts] Interesting article
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Linux in school would seem a good idea to me - but you need to
>>>>>be clear of your objectives?
>>>>>The advice to school from the LEA is likely to be that they
>>>>>don't support Linux.
>>>
>>>
>>>The line when I spoke to an ICT analyst (wonder what he analyses)
>>>at CSF (Children, Schools and Families for the unititiated here)
>>>was that they have no problem with Linux, but they would suggest
>>>that the school ensures they have the expertise to maintain any
>>>installation.
>>>
>>>He suggested that I speak to Hitchin Boys who went Linux
>>>server-side... perhaps they would give a recommendation to my
>>>school!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Is it for general school use, additional/alternative to
>>>>>Windoze?
>>>
>>>Targetted at 6th form... for two reasons
>>>
>>>1) Just got donated a load of Dells (PII 300Mhz 128Mb [I think])
>>>from a local company. These have CD-ROM drives, unlike the rest
>>>of the school's computers which are RM machines. I would like to
>>>trial a customised Knoppix on the premise that it won't write
>>>anything to the HD.
>>>
>>>2) The word is that the school did purchase a new Win98 license
>>>for every box... which considering we were given about 25
>>>computers would be a sizable chunk. While I don't want to make
>>>the staff look stupid I would like to point out the benefits OSS
>>>can bring to donated machines.
>>>
>>>In line with using Knoppix, I would like to offer it as an
>>>alternative to Windoze, for now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Is it for more computer literate students to get access to more
>>>>>free software?
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes and no.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Primary or Secondary?
>>>
>>>
>>>Secondary (http://www.stanborough.herts.sch.uk but please do not
>>>contact the staff!)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>What sort of security is required, are some of the kids likely
>>>>>to play cracking games?
>>>
>>>
>>>The school currently has bought a very weak, very buggy (VB6) and
>>>very expensive network system, including new network hardware,
>>>SLA, shell software to replace explorer.exe, re-imaging software
>>>and workstation management administration software. Man I would
>>>like to have been the guys who suckered them (CSE).
>>>
>>>Reasonable security is requried, at least to the level provided
>>>by the shell replacement. This will only list files of certain
>>>extensions and only offer applications set up by the
>>>administrator (who incidentally could probably be bribed to do
>>>anything with alcohol).
>>>
>>>Are the choices for large contracts limited in any way by the
>>>LEA? My head of year said four years ago (after me insulting RM)
>>>that RM was the lesser of several evils.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>What's your involvement? Student, Parent, teacher, governor?
>>>
>>>
>>>Student
>>>
>>>Y13 next year (2003-2004 academic year).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I've been a secondary school governor for about 15 years and
>>>>>have never really been able to get involved with the
>>>>>computers. The staff tend not to be experts but do like to be
>>>>>in control!
>>>
>>>Oh yes... the other people here have no idea...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>They had a network problem once which I arranged to sort out
>>>>>for them, but when it came to it they wouldn't let me have the
>>>>>admin password, they wouldn't even log on as admin for me, so
>>>>>I couldn't sort it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tony
>>>>>(Friis - not the other one
>>>>>
>>>>>Oliver Cole wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>Lol, lets start a HLUG /. !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I am looking at trying a Linux solution for some of the
>>>>>>>computers at my school... but I'd like to discuss it with
>>>>>>>some people more knowledegable than me. Will there be
>>>>>>>meetings over the summer? Is it the kind of thing you
>>>>>>>discuss?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Oli
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ps - just noticed the article is relevant... some good
>>>>>>>points in there, I should take note.
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>5+ X R>+ tv b++(+++) DI+ D+ G+ e h-- !r y?
>>>>>>>- ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
>>>>>>>
>>
>> >>>>>>>> snip - non-school messages removed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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