[Klug-general] You can't dis apple!

[J D Freeman]

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On Tue, Dec 19, 2006 at 12:36:18PM +0000, Karl Lattimer wrote:
> Firstly, it tells you in the mouse preferences and allows it as an
> option. Secondly it also mentions this on your user guide.
> 
> THIRDLY.
> 
> To write click, you take a pen in your dominant hand, put the pen on
> some paper and begin to draw an arc toward the left following through to
> the right to create an almost complete circle ... you know where the
> rest of this is going.

Lol.

> IN YOUR OPINION! I think the millions of ????s spent by laptop companies
> on usability testing mean nothing because your opinion is RIGHT!

At no point did I say my oppinion is right. I just said its my oppinion.
Last time I checked I did still have the right to an oppinion, despite
what labour would have you think.

> You buy a laptop with a nipple, I'll buy a laptop with a touchpad, in
> five years I'll still be able to get a laptop with a touchpad. Nipples
> will become extinct.

Erm, I think IBM have been doing nipple mice for quite a while.

> as an aside: why are all laptop input devices named after things which
> sound just a little dirty?

Dunno, I called my laptop pawn, so I could curl up in bed with pawn, and
confuse people.

> Yeah, and? Ultra portables are ultra portables I doubt I'd be able to
> type on a machine that small, and I do need to be able to code! Dainty
> woman fingers may fit, but I have big fat man hands. The spacing between
> the buttons on my mac is really nice and that is that is that.

oooh, is that a hint at sexism :p

I have seen large engineers use my 240 with no problems.

> NO ITS NOT DESIGNED FOR OSX IT IS A COMPUTER!!!! Pretty much an off the
> rack machine, just because it has one mouse button doesn't mean its
> designed for OSX, ye gods man!!!! Have you seen mighty mouse? It has 9
> buttons and a vertical and horizontal scroll ball

Erm, Woman, not man.

Yes, 9 buttons, what do I use the other 6 for? Where do I use it on my
bed? And why does a laptop need this extra mouse?

It is designed with MacOS in mind, to say anything else is complete
lunacy!

> So you aren't willing to try something different but you use linux? I
> think you should really rethink your use of computers, all OS's have
> their place and Mac is for users.

I have tried lots of different systems. Mac's are fine for users, but as
stated elsewhere, not for me. Horses for courses.

> Actually you can get a base model in black, but you have to modify it to
> make a custom machine.

Ah, ok.

> I think making that comment is suggesting that you haven't had any real
> work time on apple machines you can't really argue against them until
> you have.

I have thanks. I don't like Mac's its a matter of taste. If you love
them so much, why are you on a linux list?

> Google? 
> 
> Beryl == compiz + evolution

YEARGH!

> Expose, places windows so i can see all of them, when I do things, I SEE
> what they do, the visual keys speed up working. If I have documents open
> and i flick my mouse to the top left (fitts' law) it spreads them out.
> Each piece of eye candy helps in its own way. You have to use it to
> understand what that is. Compositing (which enables eye candy) also
> makes redraws faster via XDamage or OpenGL depending on your compositor.

I wouldn't consider expose part of the eye candy. And, tbh, I don't like
it as a feature. I know which window is where, and can find them easily.
But hey, I am not your normal user.

> And finding a menu at the top of the window it
> > relates to is much much more intuative. 
> 
> FITTS' LAW!!!! READ IT SERIOUSLY!! YOU SEEM TO KNOW F ALL ABOUT
> USABILITY AND YOU'RE COMPLAINING ABOUT APPLE... THIS IS LAUGHABLE!

I know alot about WHAT I FIND USABLE. Yes, there is all sorts of info
about what certain people find intuative, etc... But, that doesn't apply
to everyone. I don't expect everyone to use evilwm on debian, that would
be silly. I just don't expect everyone to use a mac either.

> > Yes it may seem medieval. BUT, vi works on my phone, my laptop, my
> > desktop, my router, my cluster in london, my machine in slovakia, my
> > footrest, my machine in ireland, my machine in the US, my machine in
> > amsterdam, my sun box in the lounge, my switch, my door stop. IT WORKS.
> > That cannot be said for these modern apps. 
> 
> I didn't slate VI i use it, over ssh to servers and locally as root. Vi
> is good and yes it does work very well, however it doesn't do code
> completion and related errata, every tool is different for every job.

Not doing code completion is something I consider a feature, not a bug.

> I see where you're coming from but you don't know enough to argue your
> points so just say, YOU don't like apple and be done with it, you can't
> criticise them until you understand them. Or develop your own OS from
> the ground up which is better than theirs. Good luck!

I think apple are a wonderful company, I think they make some great
products and I recommend alot of people get them.

HOWEVER. I do not get on with them, I do not like their UI for what I am
doing. and I don't care about all this research.

The Americians spent 5 million developing a pen that works in space. The
russians use a pencil.

> Yes I know, I've been using Linux and other unix flavours for the last
> 10 years easily. I know the advantages and disadvantages of pretty much
> every way of doing something. 

No, you don't. Sorry. you Don't. You can't claim that.

The Wise man knows, that which they do not know.

> I'll summarise to say that people are switching to macs by the millions
> these days, they're definitely doing something very right. I can see
> what that is you don't seem to, because you use your machine in a
> different way to the majority of people doesn't mean that your method of
> working is right, its just your way. OSX is still unix under the hood,
> and you can build and run X11 in the same way, the thing about OSX is
> that they did 4 years of solid usability testing before they released
> it. That coupled with the previous ongoing usability testing meant that
> they had the best OS when OSX came to market and its just got better and
> better and is still better than Linux in so many ways. Doesn't have all
> the power of Linux, but most of it is there.

You have entirely failed to read what I have said. Debian is not
perfect for everyone. NEITHER is MacOS X. I have never claimed that Mac
OS X is totally crap and shouldn't be used. I have never said it doesn't
have a place. I have however said, that that place is not on my desktop,
or my servers, or my laptop. Before you start spouting off on one, read
what I have said. I see this time and time again amoungst apple
faithfuls. They are happy to spout all about the research that went into
apple products, etc... But, they are ignore the fact is, I don't like
it.

Further more, you say its unix under the hood. If you remember, unix was
written by Ken Thompson cos he wanted an OS to run a certain game on. He
didn't sit down and do years of research on it first. He just wrote it.
Funnily enough, this is why unix worked, and multics failed. So under
that hood, its still unix :p

Legacy systems, Stuff that works.

> One last thing, if you're worried about loosing 20px, then you're really
> anal. And from someone who is quite anal himself that is really saying
> something.

I am not worried about just 20. 

freemadi at Black:~/docs/letters$ ps -ef | grep term | wc -l
16

thats 16 * 20, thats 320, thats over half the height of the screen. What
a waste.

J
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