[Lancaster] Re: Help -- Video importing/processing software

[Ken Hough]

Richard Robinson wrote:

>On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 11:32:00AM +0100, David Jenkinson wrote:
>  
>
>>[excuse random snippage]
>>
>>As Richard Robinson said.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>It reminds me of the recent attitude of some well known polititians. 
>>>They tend not to last very long.
>>>      
>>>
>
>[wasn't me. A Ken, I think. Not to worry]
>
>  
>
>>>Call it preconceived, but to the average (non techy) computer user it 
>>>can only be very significant blocking factor.
>>>      
>>>
>>Perhaps the amount of Linux users is high enough already,
>>
I disagree! More users means more support/feedback/encouragement for the 
developers. We all appreciate being appreciated.

>> and I just 
>>don't see the concern people have in getting everyone to use Linux. If 
>>some don't want to and they have no problem not doing then why try to 
>>change their attitude?
>>    
>>
If they do not want to then fine. However, the more the Linux user base 
grows, the likelyhood of hardware suppliers taking notice and of 
providing support will improve.

>
>I agree with this, mostly. I moved over to Linux in '94/'95, and am still
>pleased I did, _because_ it was easier to use.
>
Likewise! But, I've now developed sufficient 'techy' experience to work 
around most of the inevitable setup problems.

> For my purposes; which are
>not commercial-mainstream enough for anyone to have built the "killer app",
>that would do everything for me already, so I've been hacking together my
>own ideas.
>
>It's in my interest for Linux to have a large (and contributing) user base -
>distributed debugging works; and also general "kudos", encouragement and
>appreciation for the developers, is helpful - but it's not a religion.
>
Agreed!

> I
>don't understand this "we've got to capture all the windows users" approach.
>  
>
It's always good fun to think of Bill Gates with egg on his face. ;-)

>>>>I agree, though I also remember why I started using Linux - because I 
>>>>find using windows so frustrating and am prepared to make some 
>>>>sacrifices in order not to have to live with the frustration.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>You are knowledgable enough to be able to make those sacrifices. Most 
>>>people are not and do not wish to be. That is not likely to change in 
>>>the foreseeable future.
>>>      
>>>
>>Yeah so forget about them. Theres is enough Linux users now to not have 
>>to worry about gaining more. There is enough  hardware support if you 
>>are careful about which product you buy, and its better now than its 
>>ever been. I don't think the sacrifice of making an operating system 
>>that appeals to the masses to ensure hardware support is worth it. 
>>Theres no problem in making it difficult enough to use so that the base 
>>level user is at least able to read a faq before whingeing to the 
>>developers mailing list. Where's the elitist streak in you?
>>    
>>
>
>*grin*
>
>I bought a scanner, a few months back. I went to Matticks, on White Cross,
>because they're very local, and because I quite like them. They gave me the
>usual semi-teasing "uh-oh, here comes the Linux weirdo, this is going to be
>a problem", I pointed them at the SANE support page, we looked at the lists,
>they suprised themselves discovering that the basic cheapo one they had in
>stock was documented as "well-suported", I handed over 35quid and took it
>away ... attempting to set the thing up revealed it wasn't as simple as
>that. There was a chunk of binary info needed, that turned out to be buried
>in some windows-format thing on the drivers disk (documentation recommends
>just reboot into windows & extract it ... huh. I don't run one), google
>shows one (really, only) relevant message to a mailing list pointing out
>an open-source utility that can, and did, do the job. So I mailed the
>relevant developer, he's put links to it into the documentation, and no-one
>else will ever have to think they're stuck on this. Situation improved.
>
>  
>
WRT, scanners, I find Epson a good way to go. My distro (SuSE) supports 
a LOT of Epson printers out of the box (and many other makes/models as 
well) and Epson provide support directly in the form of 'iscan'.

Given the choice (not always practical), I try to support suppliers who 
provide at least some support for Linux. eg Epson and Nvidia.

>My point is, that's how it works. Lots of people wouldn't want to go through
>that
>
And why should we? Why should I? I think you have a rather defeatist view.

> - heck, I wasn't exactly pleased - and that's where there's room for
>people to *make* *money* by making it easy for the people who just want to
>get their work done. But if lots of people contribute what they can without
>getting paid ... well, its pretty astonishing how well it's worked out.
>  
>
Agreed! It's amazing. Trying to explain this to the average person is 
still VERY difficult.

>Microsoft has made fortunes by having to respond to the "I won't use it
>unless it's all really simple" demands; there is no "Linux" to get rich by
>competing with them. As I said before, in the absence of employers deciding
>what the developers do, they're highly likely to do what they want, in the
>way(s) they think are The Right Thing;
>
Many will, but I suggest that while they might be (probably are) 
brilliant hackers, they aren't necessarily able to, nor do they wish to 
relate to real world users. Sadly many of them don't.

> and mass-appeal is likely to emerge
>as a side effect,
>
This does not follow. It's one thing to sit in a corner and attempt to 
write the 'perfect solution', but who else cares?
Fortunately, some people are able to see the wider picture, for example 
SAMBA has done a lot to get Linux used within MS Windows networks and 
demonstrated to many how good and cost effective Linux can be.

> if at all - more than I would have expected, actually,
>eveidently a lot of people do think that's important. (With the result that
>most KDE pointyclicky "help" pages are completely damn useless. "File Menu /
>Open - Open a File". No, really ? Who'd have thought ? But I digress ...)
>  
>
Personally I like KDE and find it works well. I do not like GNOME, nor 
the way that the developers decree that I should have a more 
'minimalist' desktop. Long live choice!

Ken Hough