[Lancaster] Observations on Installing and setting up Debian, Ubuntu, and SUSE on a Thinkpad T21:
Ken Hough
kenhough at btinternet.com
Mon Aug 11 14:35:11 UTC 2008
Umm! I think that my comments re problems that I had with Debian/Ubuntu
v SUSE have not been taken as I had intended.
I didn't intend to bang the drum for SUSE above all other distros. I was
trying to make the point that some distros do not 'work out of the box'
as perhaps one might reasonably expect.
Competant sys admins and other experienced Linux hackers, might not
think this to be important, but to a 'newbie' it can be a real show
stopper. Imagine if Microsoft Windows were to throw up problems during a
simple installation......
I appreciate that Microsoft have a different business model/phylosophy
from the Linux community, but if Linux is to really make serious inroads
on the (non-professional/corporate) desktop and become widely popular,
IMHO, it must work reliably straight out of the box, and with most
PC/laptop hardware. This is the point that I was trying to make.
While Ubuntu is widely publicised as being (MS Windows) user friendly
and still suffers from 'wobblies' and inabillity to properly recognise
and configure for well known hardware, this can only adversely affect
the case for Linux in the eyes of potential non-technical users.
Perhaps Linux is it's own worst enemy in that it can be configured to
tackle pretty much any computer based task. I don't believe that should
be an excuse for not providing rock solid configuration for desktop use.
The potential benefits for computer users in general are IMHO too great
to duck this issue.
Ken Hough
Ken Hough wrote:
>Wayne ward wrote:
>
>>If it works ken and its easy thats great at the end of the day linux is linux really!
>>
>
>Agreed! But I look at Linux mainly from a user point of view rather than
>as a competant sys admin or 'geek'. I can hack config files if I have
>instructions as to what to do, but I'm no expert and life is too short
>to be faffing about.
>
>If Linux is ever to really get off the ground on the desktop, I suggest
>that my approach the most likely one to win (non professional) converts.
>
>
>>if you use a different way to install it and its easier go for it!!
>>
>>
>
>I just think that it's a shame that one of the top distros is still
>presented so poorly when compaired with the other major distros of the day.
>
>
>>im quite surprised with the amount of packages over 800!!
>>
>
>Thats' what it gave me! I didn't add or remove anything from the default
>list which inlcuded the desktop, etc!
>
>
>>I start with say 70 or 80 and bolt onto that!! Minimum installs are good if you know what packages you need
>>
>That's a big IF in my case.
>
>I expect that if you installed only the base system, that's probably
>about right and Debian does give you the opportunity to do that. If you
>need to build lean mean servers, this would be the way to go. I like to
>have a fairly well stocked desktop plus multi-media, networking, apache
>server for local website development..... ;-)
>
>
>>- I did blog a list of useful kde packages before which was handy for reference! I always find it handy when doing a install to connect to other guys using the distro on irc and ask them questions before and during a install this usually saves you all the google searches and head scratching!!!!
>>
>>
>
>I can understand that. It's your job. Most of don't have your
>skills/experience and just want to use our PCs with the minimum of fuss
>and maximum pleasure.
>
>
>>Any way have fun with suse!!
>>
>>
>
>Am doing! I had a problem with my wifi card, until I discovered that
>appropriate modules were not installed (ie ath_pci, etc). Got the
>multi-media stuff including mplayer, etc up and running OK. I did find a
>problem when using Kaffeine: The image was jerky when playing a DVD.
>
>DMA is OK, because Mplayer and xine run OK.
>
>>Linux rocks!!
>>
>>
>
>Oh Yes!!!
>
>And it's biggest strength is that it can work for so many purposes and
>hardware platforms.
>
>Ken
>
>>----------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 22:34:26 +0100
>>>From: kenhough at btinternet.com
>>>To: lancaster at mailman.lug.org.uk; lists at td-online.co.uk
>>>CC:
>>>Subject: [Lancaster] Observations on Installing and setting up Debian, Ubuntu, and SUSE on a Thinkpad T21:
>>>
>>>Following on from some comments that I made earlier:
>>>
>>>Debian Etch also turned out to be a problem on my laptop! Exactly the
>>>same hangup occured during bootup as with Debian Lenny. That jogged my
>>>memory.
>>>
>>>When I first installed Ubuntu v 7.04 on my Thinkpad T21 laptop, I got
>>>unpredictable behaviour during bootup, sometimes hanging up. A look
>>>around the Internet showed that this was a known problem with some
>>>laptop PCs, including the Thinkpad T21. The reason is that the graphics
>>>card doesn't fully anounce it's hardware spec. The solution is to hack
>>>the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and add the missing details, which I had to
>>>do back when I was using Ubuntu v7.04.
>>>
>>>I haven't confirmed this, but I bet it's the same problem with Debian
>>>Etch and Debian Lenny. Ubuntu v8.04 seems to be OK in this respect.
>>>
>>>After these hangups and the failure of Debian Lenny to find and
>>>configure my sound card, I've decided not to bother any more with
>>>Debian. As I mentioned at the Pub on Monday, I found Ubuntu to exhibit a
>>>few 'wobblies' as well, so I'm not going to continue with Ubuntu.
>>>
>>>I've gone back to SUSE. In fact to SUSE v10.3 which I've used previously
>>>on this laptop and have found to be rock solid. Compared with Debian and
>>>Ubuntu, installation was a breeze. Unlike with Debian, the installer
>>>isn't from the stone age (I mean the GUI!), and it works well. The
>>>partitioning stage is far neater on SUSE, and so far everything works
>>>without having to hack anything, including the sound system! I'm playing
>>>a CD on it presently.
>>>
>>>I understand that guys who are content to have to hack a system to make
>>>it work properly (real Man's work :-) ), might like Debian. I believe
>>>that if a distro sets out to install Linux, then by now one should be
>>>able to expect it to do the job properly. For me Debian doesn't seem to
>>>have anything to offer that SUSE can't provide.
>>>
>>>I've often heard the argument that Debian installs a smaller system than
>>>other distros. Well, during an attempt to install Debian, I noted that
>>>817 packages (I think that's correct) were to be installed. SUSE
>>>installed 840 something packages. Not an enormous difference!
>>>
>>>I guess this will get the Debian hacks going, but I thought that these
>>>observations might be of general interest.
>>>
>>>Ken Hough
>>>
>>>
>>>Ken Hough wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>David Smith wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ken,
>>>>>
>>>>>Sounds like fun!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Umm! In a masochistic sort of way. :-)
>>>>
>>>>I've just hit a wall with Debian Lenny. I couldn't get sound to work.
>>>>Judging by various postings, I'm not alone. Also after allowing updates
>>>>to be installed, the system hung up during booting with no info on screen.
>>>>
>>>>As a result, I'm presently installing Debian Etch (supposedly stable).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Have to admit I don't think it will be too long before I take Ubuntu
>>>>>off the laptop I had with me yesterday and just stick Debian on it -
>>>>>as mentioned yesterday, I stuck straight Ubuntu on it in the meantime
>>>>>for ease of use but, although it's working fine so far, I've got a
>>>>>feeling it will get slow pretty quick if I'm not careful... we'll see
>>>>>how it goes though!
>>>>>
>>>>>I know what you mean about the graphical installer though... whilst
>>>>>it's a huge leap forward for Debian, it's still a lot behind the
>>>>>'standard' of Graphical Installer offered by the other distros out
>>>>>there atm, such as SuSE and Mandriva etc. Guess it will stay that way
>>>>>for a while though!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I've met quite a few Debian users who seem to believe that this hair
>>>>shirt stuff is something to admire. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hope it works out better than Ubuntu!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>I hope. Well, I can aslways go back to SUSE. :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Ken
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>David Smith wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks for that Ken - interesting stuff!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm pretty sure when I got the package I have now that it was just a
>>>>>>>*.tar.gz and then a case of running the shell script to start it all
>>>>>>>up. If you want me to repackage what I have here for you to try out
>>>>>>>(without the demo time limitations) then no problem - it may be that
>>>>>>>it's functional enough at an earlier version stage for you!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Best,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks for kind the offer Dave, but I'll stick with what is likely to be
>>>>>>an ongoing option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I said last night that I was going to take Ubuntu/Kubuntu off my
>>>>>>Thinkpad. Well I've done it, but before installing SUSE 11, I thought
>>>>>>that I'd give Debian 5.0 (Lenny) a run. It installed OK and I'm
>>>>>>presently downloading/installing KDE. No problems so far.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I did find the graphic installation interface rather primitive in
>>>>>>comparison to what I'm used to. The partitioner interface was
>>>>>>particularly so. I use a non-standard HD partitioning so as to avoid
>>>>>>possible problems on a dual booting system with Microsoft OSes, so had
>>>>>>to set this up manually. All did eventually seem to go OK.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Watch this space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ken Hough
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
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