[Liverpool] Software freedom (problems at the University)

Thu Dec 17 19:52:17 UTC 2009

To Sujita:

I do not know about a legal side of things, regarding requirement of
installing a third party software
with the absurd EULA to gain the access to the University facility (a wi-fi
network in this case),
which is being paid for from my uni fees. But I do feel that if this is the
case that their TOS
actually require that (actually, can anyone find them anywhere?), the policy
must be changed.
Either by removing the EULA from the Sophos antivirus binary distributed by
the uni, or
removing this step whatsoever. The only thing that I could find is that
document:
http://www.liv.ac.uk/csd/students/basics.pdf that states there's no need to
install any additional
software or need to register additionally to access the network (p.10).
This needs veryfing.
Furthermore, the people at the helpdesk today were not dealing with my issue
by the standards
that I always expect from the university. They said something like that: we
don't have time to
deal with you right now, as we are understaffed, any queries should be sent
to the email
of support services (as our supervisor) told us on a phone right now.
And to add a bit more of an insult to the situation - it seems they banned
my mac addresses
from the RoamNet too, as I couldn't connect to them today too.

To Oscillik:

I know I have to calm down and separate the issues, so it doesn't get
confused.
That is why I decided to do first things first today and number one priority
for
me was to get back on the network (I need to study, in the end of the day!).
I installed Linux on that machine in question and removed my previous Gentoo
and OS X installs from it. Funny thing, I have another MacBook (Pro),
where I transferred the current data and browsers, etc, where I will have to

keep an OS X as this is the machine I use to do work (I am a sound engineer)
and technology related coursework (I am a music student). Funny enough, I
couldn't
and do not want to use this better spec laptop as my everyday machine, as
things
get stolen, drinks spills happen, etc (I ruined two macbooks in the last 3
years this
way already, so I learned my lessons!). I went the honest way - even keeping
the same
hw address (which I could have easily changed). And now they even wouldn't
let me on
the network which is encrypted, and on another network, that I was using as
a backup
connection for the last several days since everything started. I get an
impression
that the computer services decided to make me agree to the EULA by all means
possible
or not to grant me access. I really do get this expression.

So as it stands now: I can't access any wireless networks on campus,
regardless of the OS
I am using. And the only way for me to access them (their point of view) is
to agree with
EULA, which even Mr Ward says is not applicable to me, but the University.
During the visit to the Helpdesk today, as advised I sent them an email with
the request
to add my hw addresses to the control lists on their server and received no
reply.
I will write to them once more, requiring an official reply, asking the same
question.
Will wait till next week and see what their actions will be.
Once I will gain access to the wireless network(s) I will push further,
regarding
the TOS, policies, EULA, misleading information booklets and pdf files, etc.

.v

2009/12/17 oscillik <oscillik at gmail.com>

> whilst it does seem that this will end up in another epic flame the likes
> of which we may have seen before (BROWSERS!), in this case I am going to
> side with Vlad on this.
>
> From what I can gather, the university is requiring users to install
> antivirus software on devices that access the network...requiring a
> Macintosh computer to have antivirus software installed just to have access
> (regardless of what operating system it is running), and then saying that an
> iPhone can be added to the access control list *without* the need for
> antivirus is absolutely a double standard and in all honesty quite silly.
>
> The majority of iPhone users are people who bought the "phone" because it
> is a fashion statement / sexy phone / has a fruit logo on it (this is my
> opinion, your mileage may vary). It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to
> consider these users as people who would have difficulty knowing the
> difference between a return key and an enter key, let alone understand what
> risks they put themselves in when they jailbreak their phone (yes, clueless
> users do and have jailbroken their phone at the recommendation of others).
> to my knowledge there has only been one, maybe two cases of a trojan for Mac
> OS X in it's desktop variant...and even then this was just a proof of
> concept - i don't believe there was ever any widespread cases of the trojan
> affecting computers in the wild. the same cannot be said for the recent
> trojan(s) affecting the iPhone at the moment, with multiple cases of iPhones
> all over the world being affected by the trojan(s).
>
> To grant iPhone users Carte Blanche and give them access without antivirus,
> yet disallow a person who runs Mac OS X and a Linux distribution is a
> contradiction.
>
> Not to mention the fact that in the correspondence copypastas on Vladimir's
> blog, it shows that  the correspondent doesn't seem to understand that there
> is no need for an antivirus to be installed on a Macintosh when said
> Macintosh is running a Linux distribution. Also I would like to bring
> attention to the incorrect assumption that a Macintosh computer running Mac
> OS X can propagate and distribute a Windows-targeting virus. The software
> architectures are completely different. it would be like that scene in Lost
> In Translation where the hooker asks Bill Murray to "lip her stockings".
>
> I can totally understand how Vladimir would be feeling segregated and
> discriminated against, but it seems like two things need to happen here for
> this situation to have any hope of being resolved:
>
> Vladimir, please don't take this the wrong way but I would advise that you
> calm down a little first of all and focus on your ammunition in this
> situation (this being the obvious and blatant double standards employed with
> regard to giving iPhone users access by MAC address, while requiring
> Macintosh computers install antivirus). Don't bring other elements into the
> discussion, as it only seems to be confusing the people that you're
> corresponding with.
>
> Liverpool University, your staff possibly need extra training with regard
> to the operating system differences between the iPhone's OS and a Macintosh
> computer's OS. Also it might be wise to just go through the basic
> differences between a Linux based distribution (that might be a long
> training session, as Linux is not the OS), Windows, and Mac OS X. And it
> might also be a good idea to take the political sidestepping out of tech
> support and actually answer the pertinent questions here.
>
> 2009/12/17 Vladimir <vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com>
>
> hello, dave!
>>
>> i am absolutely not afraid to speak out about what i feel is right.
>> and it is glad to have you in this discussion, as you both represent the
>> computing services
>> of the university and the lug here.
>>
>> i have just been to the computing services and they refused to adhere to
>> their own policy.
>>
>> i have moved a macosx installation to another machine (a macbook pro in
>> this case)
>> and archived the gentoo installation. then installed the ubuntu 9.10 on
>> the macbook
>> (and people, everything worked almost out of the box, and i was running a
>> *single boot*)
>> machine, powered by a fresh linux kernel in about 20 minutes.
>> so, i came to the helpdesk, after what the fellow there called rob ward,
>> saying:
>>  - hello, here's a young gentleman, vladimir, who wanted to speak to you
>>
>> i pointed out that i didn't want to bother rob and therefore never asked
>> to speak to him,
>> after what this person once again repeated that "vladimir here wants to
>> speak to you"
>>
>> then they asked me to email them my hw addresses so that they can register
>> them.
>> and .... they refused to do it 5 minutes later, on the grounds of the
>> fact, that the hardware
>> is apple computers and had a mac os x install originally on it.
>>
>> now, how do you explain this? what shoud i do next, dave?
>>
>> the lesson that i was referring to in my email was about showing that
>> there could be several
>> ways of bypassing their procedures. imagine - if i initially wasn't being
>> honest to them,
>> i would just call them and said, that this is an iPhone i am trying to
>> connect, quoting the hw
>> addr. that's it - job done. but no, i tried to explain that by no means i
>> will agree with the sophos
>> draconic EULA (http://vovka-j.livejournal.com/46165.html).
>> so now i will try to get the access to the network legally. using a linux
>> machine.
>> and then will be trying to change the discrepancies in their policy, the
>> misleading
>> information they provide on the web site and the printed out brochures,
>> also,
>> will fill in a complain about the Sophos EULA, that it should be removed
>> from the
>> distributed binary. i would install this useless anti-virus just to pass
>> through the
>> security check (following the guidelines) and then remove it without much
>> thinking
>> if only not this EULA. and the question here is not OS specific. it is the
>> question
>> of either computing services negligence (they distribute the binary which
>> has an irrelevant
>> requirement to agree with EULA) or the broader issue of discrimination of
>> my software
>> choices (in this case the choice being not to install the software that
>> requires everything,
>> including letting someone to my premises).
>> in the end of the day - why is a choice of food (vegetarianism), a choice
>> of which church to
>> go to on a sunday (religion) is more important than my ethical views on
>> software licensing?
>>
>>
>> vlad.
>>
>>
>> 2009/12/17 Dave Love <d.love at liverpool.ac.uk>
>>
>>> Vladimir <vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>> > But I want to teach them a lesson.
>>> > I need a laptop of any sort for a couple of days - to change the mac
>>> addr so it matches the
>>> > hw addr of my macbook, to walk in there, register, close the lid of the
>>> Linux laptop,
>>> > open the macbook, and say - Hello, you've been framed :D
>>>
>>> You might be more careful what you say in public, no matter how stupid
>>> you think people in Computing Services and their rules are -- just a
>>> suggestion.  Merely annoying your BOFH is rarely a good idea, let alone
>>> posting something like that potentially in front of them, and I assure
>>> you they don't need lessons on MAC addresses.  If nothing else, consider
>>> that this sort of thing (archived) may not give a good impression of the
>>> group, and doesn't help any effort to improve support for non-Windows
>>> users in the university in case everyone is tarred with the same brush.
>>>
>>> --
>>> (Dr) Dave Love
>>> ‘E-Science’, Computing Services Department, University of Liverpool
>>> AKA fx at gnu.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Liverpool mailing list
>>> Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
>>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Liverpool mailing list
>> Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Liverpool mailing list
> Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/liverpool/attachments/20091217/1de5c4c3/attachment-0001.htm 