No subject
Wed Jul 15 11:13:46 UTC 2009
antivirus software on devices that access the network...requiring a
Macintosh computer to have antivirus software installed just to have access
(regardless of what operating system it is running), and then saying that a=
n
iPhone can be added to the access control list *without* the need for
antivirus is absolutely a double standard and in all honesty quite silly.
The majority of iPhone users are people who bought the "phone" because it i=
s
a fashion statement / sexy phone / has a fruit logo on it (this is my
opinion, your mileage may vary). It wouldn't be too far of a stretch to
consider these users as people who would have difficulty knowing the
difference between a return key and an enter key, let alone understand what
risks they put themselves in when they jailbreak their phone (yes, clueless
users do and have jailbroken their phone at the recommendation of others).
to my knowledge there has only been one, maybe two cases of a trojan for Ma=
c
OS X in it's desktop variant...and even then this was just a proof of
concept - i don't believe there was ever any widespread cases of the trojan
affecting computers in the wild. the same cannot be said for the recent
trojan(s) affecting the iPhone at the moment, with multiple cases of iPhone=
s
all over the world being affected by the trojan(s).
To grant iPhone users Carte Blanche and give them access without antivirus,
yet disallow a person who runs Mac OS X and a Linux distribution is a
contradiction.
Not to mention the fact that in the correspondence copypastas on Vladimir's
blog, it shows that the correspondent doesn't seem to understand that ther=
e
is no need for an antivirus to be installed on a Macintosh when said
Macintosh is running a Linux distribution. Also I would like to bring
attention to the incorrect assumption that a Macintosh computer running Mac
OS X can propagate and distribute a Windows-targeting virus. The software
architectures are completely different. it would be like that scene in Lost
In Translation where the hooker asks Bill Murray to "lip her stockings".
I can totally understand how Vladimir would be feeling segregated and
discriminated against, but it seems like two things need to happen here for
this situation to have any hope of being resolved:
Vladimir, please don't take this the wrong way but I would advise that you
calm down a little first of all and focus on your ammunition in this
situation (this being the obvious and blatant double standards employed wit=
h
regard to giving iPhone users access by MAC address, while requiring
Macintosh computers install antivirus). Don't bring other elements into the
discussion, as it only seems to be confusing the people that you're
corresponding with.
Liverpool University, your staff possibly need extra training with regard t=
o
the operating system differences between the iPhone's OS and a Macintosh
computer's OS. Also it might be wise to just go through the basic
differences between a Linux based distribution (that might be a long
training session, as Linux is not the OS), Windows, and Mac OS X. And it
might also be a good idea to take the political sidestepping out of tech
support and actually answer the pertinent questions here.
2009/12/17 Vladimir <vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com>
> hello, dave!
>
> i am absolutely not afraid to speak out about what i feel is right.
> and it is glad to have you in this discussion, as you both represent the
> computing services
> of the university and the lug here.
>
> i have just been to the computing services and they refused to adhere to
> their own policy.
>
> i have moved a macosx installation to another machine (a macbook pro in
> this case)
> and archived the gentoo installation. then installed the ubuntu 9.10 on t=
he
> macbook
> (and people, everything worked almost out of the box, and i was running a
> *single boot*)
> machine, powered by a fresh linux kernel in about 20 minutes.
> so, i came to the helpdesk, after what the fellow there called rob ward,
> saying:
> - hello, here's a young gentleman, vladimir, who wanted to speak to you
>
> i pointed out that i didn't want to bother rob and therefore never asked =
to
> speak to him,
> after what this person once again repeated that "vladimir here wants to
> speak to you"
>
> then they asked me to email them my hw addresses so that they can registe=
r
> them.
> and .... they refused to do it 5 minutes later, on the grounds of the fac=
t,
> that the hardware
> is apple computers and had a mac os x install originally on it.
>
> now, how do you explain this? what shoud i do next, dave?
>
> the lesson that i was referring to in my email was about showing that the=
re
> could be several
> ways of bypassing their procedures. imagine - if i initially wasn't being
> honest to them,
> i would just call them and said, that this is an iPhone i am trying to
> connect, quoting the hw
> addr. that's it - job done. but no, i tried to explain that by no means i
> will agree with the sophos
> draconic EULA (http://vovka-j.livejournal.com/46165.html).
> so now i will try to get the access to the network legally. using a linux
> machine.
> and then will be trying to change the discrepancies in their policy, the
> misleading
> information they provide on the web site and the printed out brochures,
> also,
> will fill in a complain about the Sophos EULA, that it should be removed
> from the
> distributed binary. i would install this useless anti-virus just to pass
> through the
> security check (following the guidelines) and then remove it without much
> thinking
> if only not this EULA. and the question here is not OS specific. it is th=
e
> question
> of either computing services negligence (they distribute the binary which
> has an irrelevant
> requirement to agree with EULA) or the broader issue of discrimination of
> my software
> choices (in this case the choice being not to install the software that
> requires everything,
> including letting someone to my premises).
> in the end of the day - why is a choice of food (vegetarianism), a choice
> of which church to
> go to on a sunday (religion) is more important than my ethical views on
> software licensing?
>
>
> vlad.
>
>
> 2009/12/17 Dave Love <d.love at liverpool.ac.uk>
>
>> Vladimir <vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>
>> > But I want to teach them a lesson.
>> > I need a laptop of any sort for a couple of days - to change the mac
>> addr so it matches the
>> > hw addr of my macbook, to walk in there, register, close the lid of th=
e
>> Linux laptop,
>> > open the macbook, and say - Hello, you've been framed :D
>>
>> You might be more careful what you say in public, no matter how stupid
>> you think people in Computing Services and their rules are -- just a
>> suggestion. Merely annoying your BOFH is rarely a good idea, let alone
>> posting something like that potentially in front of them, and I assure
>> you they don't need lessons on MAC addresses. If nothing else, consider
>> that this sort of thing (archived) may not give a good impression of the
>> group, and doesn't help any effort to improve support for non-Windows
>> users in the university in case everyone is tarred with the same brush.
>>
>> --
>> (Dr) Dave Love
>> =91E-Science=92, Computing Services Department, University of Liverpool
>> AKA fx at gnu.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Liverpool mailing list
>> Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
>> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Liverpool mailing list
> Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
>
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
whilst it does seem that this will end up in another epic flame the likes o=
f which we may have seen before (BROWSERS!), in this case I am going to sid=
e with Vlad on this.<div><br></div><div>From what I can gather, the univers=
ity is requiring users to install antivirus software on devices that access=
the network...requiring a Macintosh computer to have antivirus software in=
stalled just to have access (regardless of what operating system it is runn=
ing), and then saying that an iPhone can be added to the access control lis=
t <i>without</i>=A0the need for antivirus is absolutely a double standard a=
nd in all honesty quite silly.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The majority of iPhone users are people who bought the =
"phone" because it is a fashion statement / sexy phone / has a fr=
uit logo on it (this is my opinion, your mileage may vary). It wouldn't=
be too far of a stretch to consider these users as people who would have d=
ifficulty knowing the difference between a return key and an enter key, let=
alone understand what risks they put themselves in when they jailbreak the=
ir phone (yes, clueless users do and have jailbroken their phone at the rec=
ommendation of others). to my knowledge there has only been one, maybe two =
cases of a trojan for Mac OS X in it's desktop variant...and even then =
this was just a proof of concept - i don't believe there was ever any w=
idespread cases of the trojan affecting computers in the wild. the same can=
not be said for the recent trojan(s) affecting the iPhone at the moment, wi=
th multiple cases of iPhones all over the world being affected by the troja=
n(s).</div>
<div><br></div><div>To grant iPhone users Carte=A0Blanche and give them acc=
ess without antivirus, yet disallow a person who runs Mac OS X and a Linux =
distribution is a contradiction.</div><div><br></div><div>Not to mention th=
e fact that in the correspondence copypastas on Vladimir's blog, it sho=
ws that =A0the correspondent doesn't seem to understand that there is n=
o need for an antivirus to be installed on a Macintosh when said Macintosh =
is running a Linux distribution. Also I would like to bring attention to th=
e incorrect assumption that a Macintosh computer running Mac OS X can=A0pro=
pagate=A0and distribute a Windows-targeting virus. The software architectur=
es are completely different. it would be like that scene in Lost In Transla=
tion where the hooker asks Bill Murray to "lip her stockings".</d=
iv>
<div><br></div><div>I can totally understand how Vladimir would be feeling =
segregated and discriminated against, but it seems like two things need to =
happen here for this situation to have any hope of being resolved:</div>
<div><br></div><div>Vladimir, please don't take this the wrong way but =
I would advise that you calm down a little first of all and focus on your a=
mmunition in this situation (this being the obvious and blatant double stan=
dards employed with regard to giving iPhone users access by MAC address, wh=
ile requiring Macintosh computers install antivirus). Don't bring other=
elements into the discussion, as it only seems to be confusing the people =
that you're corresponding with.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Liverpool University, your staff possibly need extra tr=
aining with regard to the operating system differences between the iPhone&#=
39;s OS and a Macintosh computer's OS. Also it might be wise to just go=
through the basic differences between a Linux based distribution (that mig=
ht be a long training session, as Linux is not the OS), Windows, and Mac OS=
X. And it might also be a good idea to take the political sidestepping out=
of tech support and actually answer the pertinent questions here.</div>
<div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2009/12/17 Vladimir <span dir=3D"l=
tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com">vladimir.jakubovs=
kij at gmail.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
hello, dave!<br><br>i am absolutely not afraid to speak out about what i fe=
el is right. <br>and it is glad to have you in this discussion, as you both=
represent the computing services<br>of the university and the lug here. <b=
r>
<br>i have just been to the computing services and they refused to adhere t=
o their own policy.<br><br>i have moved a macosx installation to another ma=
chine (a macbook pro in this case)<br>and archived the gentoo installation.=
then installed the ubuntu 9.10 on the macbook<br>
(and people, everything worked almost out of the box, and i was running a <=
b>single boot</b>) <br>machine, powered by a fresh linux kernel in about 20=
minutes. <br>so, i came to the helpdesk, after what the fellow there calle=
d rob ward, saying:<br>
=A0- hello, here's a young gentleman, vladimir, who wanted to speak to =
you<br><br>i pointed out that i didn't want to bother rob and therefore=
never asked to speak to him,<br>after what this person once again repeated=
that "vladimir here wants to speak to you"<br>
<br>then they asked me to email them my hw addresses so that they can regis=
ter them.<br>and .... they refused to do it 5 minutes later, on the grounds=
of the fact, that the hardware<br>is apple computers and had a mac os x in=
stall originally on it. <br>
<br>now, how do you explain this? what shoud i do next, dave? <br><br>the l=
esson that i was referring to in my email was about showing that there coul=
d be several <br>ways of bypassing their procedures. imagine - if i initial=
ly wasn't being honest to them,<br>
i would just call them and said, that this is an iPhone i am trying to conn=
ect, quoting the hw <br>addr. that's it - job done. but no, i tried to =
explain that by no means i will agree with the sophos <br>draconic EULA (<a=
href=3D"http://vovka-j.livejournal.com/46165.html" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//vovka-j.livejournal.com/46165.html</a>).<br>
so now i will try to get the access to the network legally. using a linux m=
achine.<br>and then will be trying to change the discrepancies in their pol=
icy, the misleading<br>information they provide on the web site and the pri=
nted out brochures, also,<br>
will fill in a complain about the Sophos EULA, that it should be removed fr=
om the<br>distributed binary. i would install this useless anti-virus just =
to pass through the<br>security check (following the guidelines) and then r=
emove it without much thinking <br>
if only not this EULA. and the question here is not OS specific. it is the =
question<br>of either computing services negligence (they distribute the bi=
nary which has an irrelevant<br>requirement to agree with EULA) or the broa=
der issue of discrimination of my software<br>
choices (in this case the choice being not to install the software that req=
uires everything,<br>including letting someone to my premises). <br>in the =
end of the day - why is a choice of food (vegetarianism), a choice of which=
church to <br>
go to on a sunday (religion) is more important than my ethical views on sof=
tware licensing? <br><br><br>vlad.<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><d=
iv class=3D"im">2009/12/17 Dave Love <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailt=
o:d.love at liverpool.ac.uk" target=3D"_blank">d.love at liverpool.ac.uk</a>><=
/span><br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px solid rgb(=
204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex"><div>Vladimir <=
;<a href=3D"mailto:vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">vladim=
ir.jakubovskij at gmail.com</a>> writes:<div>
<div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
> But I want to teach them a lesson.<br>
> I need a laptop of any sort for a couple of days - to change the mac a=
ddr so it matches the<br>
> hw addr of my macbook, to walk in there, register, close the lid of th=
e Linux laptop,<br>
> open the macbook, and say - Hello, you've been framed :D<br>
<br>
</div></div></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">You might be more caref=
ul what you say in public, no matter how stupid<br>
you think people in Computing Services and their rules are -- just a<br>
suggestion. =A0Merely annoying your BOFH is rarely a good idea, let alone<b=
r>
posting something like that potentially in front of them, and I assure<br>
you they don't need lessons on MAC addresses. =A0If nothing else, consi=
der<br>
that this sort of thing (archived) may not give a good impression of the<br=
>
group, and doesn't help any effort to improve support for non-Windows<b=
r>
users in the university in case everyone is tarred with the same brush.<br>
<div><br>
--<br>
(Dr) Dave Love<br>
=91E-Science=92, Computing Services Department, University of Liverpool<br>
AKA <a href=3D"mailto:fx at gnu.org" target=3D"_blank">fx at gnu.org</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
</div><div><div></div><div>Liverpool mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk" target=3D"_blank">Liverpool=
@mailman.lug.org.uk</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool" target=3D=
"_blank">https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool</a></div></d=
iv></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Liverpool mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk">Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.u=
k</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool" target=3D=
"_blank">https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool</a><br></blo=
ckquote></div><br></div></div>
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