[Liverpool] Liverpool Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9

Paul Leech pleech at gmail.com
Fri May 8 13:09:44 UTC 2009 

To All

Ok the language I used was probably uncalled for, I had a few drinks and was
a bit miffed by people extolling the virtues of Access and Excel even though
the above two programs were not doing what they wanted them to do.

However, I still think that if Linux is going to gain any traction in the
world, without Microsofts massive marketing machine, Linux does need
promoting and a good debate is what I would like to get started.  Susan
Linton from Tuxmachines.org argues that Microsoft has been signing
interoperability agreements with redhat etc for the past two years and
generally sucking up to the Open Source community but then "signing patent
agreements with lots of open source vendors in an effort to trick them into
violating the GPL and ultimately coercing or forcing them into using its
proprietary systems".  Even filing lawsuits against small firms which refuse
to sign. "To think Microsoft could actually turn over a new leaf and work
with open source instead of against it shows how naive, trusting and hopeful
the open souce community actually is".  So my point is, should the open
source community continue to work with Microsoft or go it totally alone and
have nothing what to do with this organisation?

Thanks
(Linux zealot)

2009/5/8 <liverpool-request at mailman.lug.org.uk>

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Place to drink (Tim Dobson)
>   2. Re: Place to drink (Paxton, Darren)
>   3. Re: Group Future (Was: Places To Drink) (Andrew Williams)
>   4. Re: Group Future (Was: Places To Drink) (Vladimir)
>   5. Re: Group Future (Was: Places To Drink) (Dan Lynch)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 02:08:35 +0100
> From: Tim Dobson <lists at tdobson.net>
> Subject: Re: [Liverpool] Place to drink
> To: Liverpool Linux User Group <liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <4A038613.5000606 at tdobson.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> dmail wrote:
> > ref: Paul Leech
> > "I would welcome some constructive criticism to add to my armoury "
> >
> > Are Microsoft a scum sucking bastard of an organisation?"
> > Is that not a suggestive question rather than a question?
> > "Micro$oft"
> > There is no dollar sign in there name and this type of thing is childish!
> > "Also, I didn't get the job I went for as they were still struggling
> > with micros$hit did not see any need to change(peasants)..."
> > You know Paul these types of comments make you no better than a Windows
> > zealot.
>
> Sorry, I actually agree.
>
> Tim
> --
> www.tdobson.net
> ----
> If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us
> still has one object.
> If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now
> has two ideas.   -  George Bernard Shaw
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 07:06:30 +0100
> From: "Paxton, Darren" <Darren.Paxton at mercer.com>
> Subject: Re: [Liverpool] Place to drink
> To: Liverpool Linux User Group <liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID:
>        <6693AC8500B51B4F93ACCEE761F227E620E8F6D84A at GBEXE11XM01.mercer.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> So the debate has started earlier than planned.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: liverpool-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk [mailto:
> liverpool-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Tim Dobson
> Sent: 08 May 2009 02:09
> To: Liverpool Linux User Group
> Subject: Re: [Liverpool] Place to drink
>
> dmail wrote:
> > ref: Paul Leech
> > "I would welcome some constructive criticism to add to my armoury "
> >
> > Are Microsoft a scum sucking bastard of an organisation?"
> > Is that not a suggestive question rather than a question?
> > "Micro$oft"
> > There is no dollar sign in there name and this type of thing is childish!
> > "Also, I didn't get the job I went for as they were still struggling
> > with micros$hit did not see any need to change(peasants)..."
> > You know Paul these types of comments make you no better than a Windows
> > zealot.
>
> Sorry, I actually agree.
>
> Tim
> --
> www.tdobson.net
> ----
> If each of us have one object, and we exchange them, then each of us
> still has one object.
> If each of us have one idea, and we exchange them, then each of us now
> has two ideas.   -  George Bernard Shaw
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:24:56 +0100
> From: Andrew Williams <andy at tensixtyone.com>
> Subject: Re: [Liverpool] Group Future (Was: Places To Drink)
> To: Liverpool Linux User Group <liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID: <20090508102456.GA9999 at manex.tensixtyone.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 01:50:44AM +0100, Dan Lynch wrote:
> > That place was pretty cool actually. As long as we could get the bigger
> room
> > it could be pretty good I think. Interesting that you mention debating as
> > this is mostly what happened at the Wetherspoons last time. Not about
> open
> > source but mainly about films, music, which numbering system is best and
> > 80's synthesizers. Now there's an odd bunch of topics :)
> >
> > I'm sure we could mix in some open source and other techy subjects
> though. I
> > dunno how others will feel but it might be a good idea to see what the
> > people at the pub have to say. Can't hurt to find out and then decide if
> > it's the right venue
>
> Again, we're slipping away from the L in LUG :)
>
> Not this is a bad thing, I've said a few times about moving the group to
> a more general "free software" group, as it's turning out as time goes
> on that the actual need for a LUG is very low.
>
> So, lets put it onto the table. Heres a few ideas/actions I have
> spinning around my head, possible routes so to say:
>
> 1) Should Liverpool LUG be changed into a "Free / Open Software" group,
> this in turn will remove the focus of Linux within any meetings and
> generally cover the usage of free / open software in any area, arts,
> computing, and modern life.
>
> 2) A new group group to be formed under the above ideals and Liverpool
> LUG reborn into a pure Linux user group.
>
> 3) Changing Liverpool LUG into a general geek group, coverting art,
> music, development and geekery. Much like GeekUp but less emphasis on
> Web 2.0 and web development.
>
> 4) Stay the same.
>
> I'm interested in what other people think, lets get some discussion
> going.
>
> --
> Andrew Williams
> w: http://tensixtyone.com/
> e: andy at tensixtyone.com
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 11:31:51 +0100
> From: Vladimir <vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Liverpool] Group Future (Was: Places To Drink)
> To: Liverpool Linux User Group <liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID:
>        <8fbe29aa0905080331n132f8433x8c697ae2c345dd83 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> the group should stay the same. it's a Linux Users Group.Linux users use
> Free/Open Source software primarily.
> we are not "kernel" users. we use software. talking about software, 'unix
> way',
> freedoms is absolutely in line with what LUG is about.
>
> 2009/5/8 Andrew Williams <andy at tensixtyone.com>
>
> > On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 01:50:44AM +0100, Dan Lynch wrote:
> > > That place was pretty cool actually. As long as we could get the bigger
> > room
> > > it could be pretty good I think. Interesting that you mention debating
> as
> > > this is mostly what happened at the Wetherspoons last time. Not about
> > open
> > > source but mainly about films, music, which numbering system is best
> and
> > > 80's synthesizers. Now there's an odd bunch of topics :)
> > >
> > > I'm sure we could mix in some open source and other techy subjects
> > though. I
> > > dunno how others will feel but it might be a good idea to see what the
> > > people at the pub have to say. Can't hurt to find out and then decide
> if
> > > it's the right venue
> >
> > Again, we're slipping away from the L in LUG :)
> >
> > Not this is a bad thing, I've said a few times about moving the group to
> > a more general "free software" group, as it's turning out as time goes
> > on that the actual need for a LUG is very low.
> >
> > So, lets put it onto the table. Heres a few ideas/actions I have
> > spinning around my head, possible routes so to say:
> >
> > 1) Should Liverpool LUG be changed into a "Free / Open Software" group,
> > this in turn will remove the focus of Linux within any meetings and
> > generally cover the usage of free / open software in any area, arts,
> > computing, and modern life.
> >
> > 2) A new group group to be formed under the above ideals and Liverpool
> > LUG reborn into a pure Linux user group.
> >
> > 3) Changing Liverpool LUG into a general geek group, coverting art,
> > music, development and geekery. Much like GeekUp but less emphasis on
> > Web 2.0 and web development.
> >
> > 4) Stay the same.
> >
> > I'm interested in what other people think, lets get some discussion
> > going.
> >
> > --
> > Andrew Williams
> > w: http://tensixtyone.com/
> > e: andy at tensixtyone.com
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> >
> > iEYEARECAAYFAkoECHcACgkQOYXUY+Bc/8AQ6QCg1xns0tPrNKQMVDzGN8sEHgl2
> > up4An1fgTQ/Gm4+51JuL6cWg+hpjOqOZ
> > =VNAq
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Liverpool mailing list
> > Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 12:30:34 +0100
> From: Dan Lynch <biglynchy at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Liverpool] Group Future (Was: Places To Drink)
> To: Liverpool Linux User Group <liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk>
> Message-ID:
>        <f518cfc40905080430v3b4fbb98nb861c35ea266e5c3 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I would agree with Vladimir on this one. I know we are called a Linux User
> Group but in reality at every LUG I've ever been to people don't just talk
> about Linux exclusively. There's usually talk about phones and mobile
> devices, BSD, Solaris and all kinds of general FLOSS stuff. I've never
> heard
> anyone complain about it. There's plenty of Linux talk too as you'd expect
> but it's not a set topic. It's what I would expect at a LUG, perhaps I've
> missed the point of the L in LUG all along. I love Linux and I love talking
> about it but I don't mind if people want to talk about BSD or anything
> else.
> It seems a little like splitting hairs.
>
> I'd be interested to hear what others think. Maybe I'm out of touch. It
> wouldn't be the first time :)
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Vladimir <vladimir.jakubovskij at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > the group should stay the same. it's a Linux Users Group.Linux users use
> > Free/Open Source software primarily.
> > we are not "kernel" users. we use software. talking about software, 'unix
> > way',
> > freedoms is absolutely in line with what LUG is about.
> >
> > 2009/5/8 Andrew Williams <andy at tensixtyone.com>
> >
> >> On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 01:50:44AM +0100, Dan Lynch wrote:
> >> > That place was pretty cool actually. As long as we could get the
> bigger
> >> room
> >> > it could be pretty good I think. Interesting that you mention debating
> >> as
> >> > this is mostly what happened at the Wetherspoons last time. Not about
> >> open
> >> > source but mainly about films, music, which numbering system is best
> and
> >> > 80's synthesizers. Now there's an odd bunch of topics :)
> >> >
> >> > I'm sure we could mix in some open source and other techy subjects
> >> though. I
> >> > dunno how others will feel but it might be a good idea to see what the
> >> > people at the pub have to say. Can't hurt to find out and then decide
> if
> >> > it's the right venue
> >>
> >> Again, we're slipping away from the L in LUG :)
> >>
> >> Not this is a bad thing, I've said a few times about moving the group to
> >> a more general "free software" group, as it's turning out as time goes
> >> on that the actual need for a LUG is very low.
> >>
> >> So, lets put it onto the table. Heres a few ideas/actions I have
> >> spinning around my head, possible routes so to say:
> >>
> >> 1) Should Liverpool LUG be changed into a "Free / Open Software" group,
> >> this in turn will remove the focus of Linux within any meetings and
> >> generally cover the usage of free / open software in any area, arts,
> >> computing, and modern life.
> >>
> >> 2) A new group group to be formed under the above ideals and Liverpool
> >> LUG reborn into a pure Linux user group.
> >>
> >> 3) Changing Liverpool LUG into a general geek group, coverting art,
> >> music, development and geekery. Much like GeekUp but less emphasis on
> >> Web 2.0 and web development.
> >>
> >> 4) Stay the same.
> >>
> >> I'm interested in what other people think, lets get some discussion
> >> going.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andrew Williams
> >> w: http://tensixtyone.com/
> >> e: andy at tensixtyone.com
> >>
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
> >>
> >> iEYEARECAAYFAkoECHcACgkQOYXUY+Bc/8AQ6QCg1xns0tPrNKQMVDzGN8sEHgl2
> >> up4An1fgTQ/Gm4+51JuL6cWg+hpjOqOZ
> >> =VNAq
> >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Liverpool mailing list
> >> Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> >> https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Liverpool mailing list
> > Liverpool at mailman.lug.org.uk
> > https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/liverpool
> >
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> End of Liverpool Digest, Vol 175, Issue 9
> *****************************************
>



-- 
Paul Leech
pleech at gmail.com
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