[Menai-LUG] Meeting/Seminar?

[Kevin Donnelly]

OK - a bit of a summary reply.  There seems to be enough interest to do some 
more thinking on this, and at that point I will approach the other people I 
have on my mental list who haven't expressed a view yet ....

On Thursday 08 February 2007 12:49, Richard Smedley wrote:
> Please don't neglect the third sector - social enterprises
> are far more dynamic and innovative, as well as being
> generally morally superior ;-P

Yes, good point, and I have some contacts there too.

> We'd be happy to attend and present if I am available :-)

Great - you were one of the unfortunates on my arm-twisting list :-)

> I'm happy to help you develop the schedule/scope/content.

Terrific.

> Given the sponsored venue, the only real challenge is the
> catering - all such events stand or fall on the quality of
> the victuals ;^)

I think they can sort out the catering too, so that shouldn't be a problem.

On Thursday 08 February 2007 12:48, Phil Thane wrote:
> It's do-able, but I for one am crap at organising things. Found that out
> years ago at college when I was chair of the worst performing Rag Week in
> living memory.

Noted!

> As most NWLUGgers know I'm the Beginners' Linux guy for Micro Mart, and
> asker of many many very basic questions, if the event attracts beginners
> I'm happy to talk to them and demo (English only, or maybe French but no
> Welsh) but if you want advanced networking stuff for businesses leave me
> out.

Great - you were another on my list.  Something low-curve for beginners would 
be a good thing.

> (BTW still haven't sorted my Firewall...)

Pshaw!  Live dangerously - forget firewalls!

On Thursday 08 February 2007 15:08, John Fraser Williams wrote:
> I am staggered at the lack of promotion to the general public (including
> SMEs) of Open Source solutions. How many people know about Open
> Office/Agored?

That's because it takes time and long chipping away at established notions 
which well-funded players have spent millions in marketing money to promote 
(so that you get people, for instance, associating a PC with Microsoft 
Windows, and unable to imagine a PC without said software).  As Linus 
Torvalds said, considering using another OS is like doing a brain transplant 
on yourself.

Regarding Agored, I have less sympathy - they got a tidy sum from the EU, and 
if they're not using some of it for marketing that's their lookout.

> The public sector in Wales spends a fortune on site licences for
> proprietary software. How much more efficient it would be to use open
> source resources and spent that money on developing a local skills base to
> support users bilingually.

Indeed.  £10m was spent renting Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office for 3 
years in the NHS in Wales, when the vast majority of users could have used a 
FLOSS solution to get what they needed done (I would hazard a guess that 
email, browsing, word-processing and presentations are the only 4 apps used 
by 90% of the admin staff in the NHS).

> I also feel that there is a need to assist the 'digitally dispossessed' in
> this part of the world. What about recycling redundant hardware, installing
> Linux distros, and then donating/supplying at cost to community groups,
> schools, etc? Some follow-up support would be needed, but there must be
> some public funding which could help.

Good point.

> At a practical level, I would suggest that a demo of all the common office
> applications (as many as possible bilingual!) would show people the
> possibilities. I would also take a redundant system, and over the course of
> the day, install and configure all the necessary Open Source software to
> run a small enterprise.

Excellent ideas.  A sort of "installfest on steroids".

On Thursday 08 February 2007 18:39, Oli wrote:
> Why Anglesey though?  The major population of North Wales is not there
> - I would have thought holding the event in Llandudno or Colwyn Bay
> would ensure more people would be able to gain from such an event.

Hehe!  Because that's where this building is :-), and the Council is fairly 
open-minded about IT stuff.  Plus they are already funding some other useful 
things like Bloc - they might see this as fitting into that, and be 
accommodating on rent, etc.  It's also easier for me to put more time into 
organising, if it's closer.  Finally, it's not so much volume (ie numbers of 
people) we need, as decision-makers and opinion-formers.

> I will soon be taking part in a sitting in a steering committee for a
> week long event for Flintshire, and certainly think there is room for
> holding such an event here - although obviously details will need to
> be worked out.

There's certainly no reason why a couple of events like this couldn't be held 
in North Wales - we're big enough, and the technology is now mature enough, 
IMHO.  Plus there's a psychological opportunity, in that over the next few 
months people are going to be thinking "Vista - should I or should I not?", 
so they may be more open to hearing about angles they might not have 
considered before.  If I can help at your event, let me know (I couldn't do 
much organising, though - it's too far away).

> I do think that to make it successful there needs to be an open source
> event rather than a Linux event.  For a non enthusiast, going down the
> Linux migration route is too big a step in one go - and if that is the
> only option - they will stick with Windows - and the event will be a
> wasted opportunity.

I think that can be covered by the approach I suggested earlier - "you can run 
some of this stuff (eg .....) on Microsoft Windows and Apple Mac machines. 
but then you lose the benefits of no vendor lock-in, a better security model, 
etc etc.  I'm not we should be aiming at "non-enthusiasts" - instead, try to 
present people with sound business reasons (data freedom, no licenses, 
versatility) why they should become enthusiasts.

I also think that the "FLOSS on Windows" angle is chickening out a bit.  It's 
as if you're saying "break free, but don't leave the front garden".  I've 
never seen a Microsoft Windows expo where the selling point was billed as 
showing you Microsoft Windows software that you could run on an Apple Mac, 
for instance - I don't see why Linux should be expected to present these 
things in a way no other OS does.

On Thursday 08 February 2007 20:15, Tony Wilkins wrote:
> Why not Wrexham? At the end of the day Kevin has identified a sponsored
> venue and a great idea. If it takes off why not do one in a central and
> eastern North Wales town.

Exactly - in fact, once you've run one, it would probably be easier to run one 
somewhere else, since you would have a "template".

> Oli, you work with ITWales? Come on there must be someone that can be
> identified. What about a small business that could be cajoled in trying
> out open source / linux based systems for a couple of months and report
> back at the seminar.

Yes, ITWales *should* have some data on this field - if not, we obviously 
haven't been making enough of a splash!  In fact, an event like this might 
bring some people/companies out of the woodwork, which would help ITWales for 
the future.

The idea of a "testbed" is a great one, but would need to be carefully 
planned.  I considered this for schools a couple of years ago, and concluded 
that you would need to be able to do more than say "here's a box with Linux 
on it, off you go".  I wouldn't want "handholding" to become "support", so 
the testbed would need some fairly clear criteria (eg not necessarily trying 
to get a Linux box to replace a box running a 15-year old DOS app on a flaky 
network that has lots of other odd things wrong with it - that way lies 
madness!).  

> Count me in. If I can help I will.

Cool!  Thanks!

> Sounds like we need a meet to take this further / discuss what we want and
> can do.

Yes, good idea.  We'll do a bit more on the list first, I think, to get some 
sort of list of points, and then maybe set up a meeting in a couple of weeks?  

-- 
Pob hwyl / Best wishes

Kevin Donnelly

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