[Nottingham] Response on awareness day

Steve Dickman stevedickman at fiskertonvcb.net
Thu Nov 3 11:58:23 GMT 2005

Gentlemen - I've been enjoying this little debate - but I think I  
will unsubscribe from the list before it becomes way too  
unprofessional and petty.

Before anyone 'greps/sed/awks' (or alternate geek tools) the list to  
determine the cost/benefit analysis for my posts/requests for  
assistance to determine this post's validity for response or  
otherwise - I just want to make a few points.

I think that this thread's indicative of the whole problem with the  
Linux community, you can't even determine what the purpose of the LUG  
is for. One camp it's an open forum for discussion and another it's  
to help promote Linux in the market place, I think it's both,  
although I am open to arguments that it should be IBM/Novell and  
others that spend their marketing $$$s on this task.

I would love to reduce the TCO for my systems, as well as promote  
such to my customers - and see an opportunity to do so, particularly  
when Micro$oft introduce Office 12 and Longhorn along with 64 bit  
processors next year (maybe?) a triple whammy for businesses like  
mine. If ever there was an opportunity for Linux this is it.

But -

- it needs to be user friendly (from a Windoze user perspective - sorry)
- it needs better configuration tools (although I can use vi and edit  
rc scripts - sad but true) I don't want users doing it.
- it needs mainstream support (that is perceived to be cheaper) and I  
understand the arguments about Windoze techies being rubbish etc it's  
a perception thing. Also I find it difficult to see customers posting  
to LUG forums for answers to mission critical issues.
- we have to emulate existing applications - not replace them, again  
sorry but I have found no-one able or willing to assess 20 opensource  
packages in order to change from Sage or Quickbooks.

As an Example, I did find a Linux package out of Shanghai that looks  
and feels like Windoze Media Centre - it works great and is very user  
friendly - but I had a two day job finding, installing, and  
configuring drivers for a PVR card - not good.

The challenge's are finite, the opportunities are great, and it would  
need a small amount of co-ordinated effort from both sides of this  
debate to effect a solution that would see high adoption of stable,  
scalable systems that provide customer's with what they want. That  
IMHO includes awareness days etc.

So perhaps the debate should be  'does the open source or other Linux  
communities help or hinder the adoption of Linux systems in the  
market place' because on the strength of this debate I would say  
hinder. If you don't care and want to remain a  'holier than thou',  
'opensource is king', closed-minded, '100% non-windoze' person non- 
commercial techie - you will.

(I will wait for my grep results before I unsubscribe....)

On 3 Nov 2005, at 10:54, Michael Simms wrote:

> On Thu, 2005-11-03 at 09:28 +0000, Mike Cardwell wrote:
>> Michael Simms wrote:
>> You don't appear to understand the "real" function of the list.
> Ahh your opinion stated as fact, good start.
>> Regardless of whether or not you want it to be this way, people  
>> like my
>> self sign up to LUG lists in order to learn technical information  
>> that
>> would be useful to them at home and at work.
> So you want to take and not give. Life doesnt work like that sorry.
> So far you have (I find after a brief grep) asked the LUG for help  
> nine
> times over the last 18 months, each time LUG members have jumped to  
> your
> assistance. I dont really feel it is too much to ask you give  
> something
> back.
>> Insulting people will not help your cause.
> I dont recall me insulting anyone.
>>> Do you know - myself and a few others have invested a lot of time  
>>> and
>>> effort into this awareness day. All we asked of the rest of you is a
>>> little bit of a commitment that would have taken 10 minutes of your
>>> time.
>> No I didn't know that, and frankly I don't care.
> I just hope that when you NEXT have ANOTHER question you need  
> answering
> by the LUG, that the LUG members dont have the same attitude to you
> then, eh.
>>> Martin has asked for people to let him know if they can do the  
>>> awareness
>>> day on the Friday. How many people have come back to him and say  
>>> they
>>> can? ZERO.
>> Yes. Are you starting to get the idea now?
> Oh Im starting to get a few ideas.
>>> So far Ive invested about 70 pounds of my personal money, and a  
>>> fair bit
>>> of my time (yes, I run 2 companies and work about 12-14 hours a  
>>> day, and
>>> I managed to find the time, so lack of time is NOT an excuse). I  
>>> know
>>> martin expends a lot of time on the LUG, and he is almost as busy  
>>> as me.
>>> And yet it seems that only the two of us are going to be at the
>>> awareness day on Friday. Well thats OK because seeing as none of you
>>> bothered to send me any addresses, we have no publicity for it so
>>> probably nobody will be showing up anyway!
>> Not justified. You've made a fool out of your self because you've  
>> wasted
>> your own time and you're blaming everyone else.
> I did? Interesting, I dont feel like I made a fool out of myself. I  
> feel
> that Ive brought it to the attention of the LUG how so many people say
> 'yeah its a great idea' and they fail to get off their backsides to  
> put
> their money where their mouth is.
> If you don't want to help, hey thats fine, but don't expect anyone  
> else
> to help you in return next time YOU need it. It works both ways.
> --
> Michael Simms - CEO, Tux Games
> http://www.tuxgames.com
> _______________________________________________
> Nottingham mailing list
> Nottingham at mailman.lug.org.uk
> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/nottingham

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