[Phpwm] Opportunity to teach your PHP knowledge to me

Dave Holmes Dave at neteffekt.co.uk
Fri Mar 2 20:48:51 GMT 2007

Hi Mike, 

Hows things mate, seeing as we got you into PHP does this count as train the


-----Original Message-----
From: phpwm-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk
[mailto:phpwm-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Mike Tipping
Sent: 02 March 2007 13:26
To: 'West Midlands PHP User Group'
Subject: RE: [Phpwm] Opportunity to teach your PHP knowledge to me

I would be happy to take on a junior developer and pay them next to nothing
in return for training. However the motivation for doing this would always
be that hopefully in 6 months time I would have a good developer working for
me and the time I had spent training them would be repaid by not having to
recruit an already experienced developer.

It sounds to me like Simon is after short term training but isn't offering a
longer term commitment. In which case the time I spent training him would be
better spent developing. He used the word 'Apprentice', I believe
apprentices where tied to work for their master (for want of a better word)
for several years and had to buy their way out of the apprenticeship if they
wanted to end it early.

If you are looking for a junior position and are offering a longer term
commitment (and want to work in sunny Leamington Spa) then I'd be very
willing to discuss things further so get in touch.

Incidentally, with relation to heavy hitting websites, Rasmus Lerdorf did a
demo at last weeks PHP con on taking a basic webs site with a PostgreSQL
backend and optimizing it to handle over 1000 hits per second. Well worth a
look if you can find the movies (which I can't)



-----Original Message-----
From: phpwm-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk
[mailto:phpwm-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk] On Behalf Of Phil Beynon
Sent: 02 March 2007 12:02
To: West Midlands PHP User Group
Subject: RE: [Phpwm] Opportunity to teach your PHP knowledge to me

> >At the end of the day, I'd rather quote for doing the job :) Though I 
> >suspect that my company would be far to expensive!
> Depends on whether we're talking a reasonably compensation for the 
> training and your hourly rates.  A quick search suggests the average 
> PHP course is around £1000.  One on one tuition possibly double that?  
> Once you factor in that the student is receiving an undefined length 
> of training (with all due respect to the original poster most of us 
> don't know his current PHP level or his ability to learn).  Also, once 
> complete, the student would be in possession of a production ready 
> website ready to earn them money.  I'd guess a specialist training 
> company could easily quote £5000+ for such a task.
> The original poster said they'd been estimated 20 man hours of work, 
> add 25% and we'll assume 25 hours in reality.  Even if you knock off 
> £1000 for a standard PHP training course elsewhere that would make an 
> hourly rate of £160.  Now if you're saying you're "far too expensive" 
> for someone talking £160/hour I'm curious what your hourly rates are 
> :-)
> Although more seriously, I got the impression that the original poster 
> was after something less expensive than those figures.  Which is 
> probably why the experienced trainers out there are shying away and 
> why Rob thinks he'd be too expensive even just doing the job himself 
> (especially if he's budgeting in a third-party training course too).
> The same request on a random web-dev list would probably get snapped 
> up quite quickly because there seems to be a lot of people around who 
> don't value their time/experience as highly as the more experienced 
> people on this list do.
> Then again, I'd echo Phil's suggestion of just knuckling down and 
> trying it alone.  At 20 man hours I'd assume the project is within the 
> realm of someone with a basic grounding in PHP providing they have a 
> few books and a helpful mailing list to help out when they get stuck.  
> It would take a bit longer but it would probably make a good learning 
> exercise in itself and the costs would be pretty negligible compared 
> to paying someone a fair rate.
> Kevin

If anyone wants to pay me 160/hr I'll definately train them in anything they
want to know about, from PHP to correctly fitting pocketwatch hairsprings,
with a few dozen other topics thrown in along the way! :-)

Realistically though, if it was quoted at 25 hours and Simon works at 10th
of the speed and experienced programmer does, then he can still have it
finished by the end of March :-) Go for it Simon!


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