Democracy (was : RE: [SC.LUG] Bill Gates to be Knighted?)

Tue Feb 3 18:12:11 GMT 2004

Signature requirement - let's correct myself - 1% of the eligible
population, or 10,000 signatures, whichever is the lesser.

And if your household thinks it can handle its education, or provide for its
health or security, better than the local authority - why shouldn't you have
the power to opt out??

All for it!

-----Original Message-----
From: sc-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk
[mailto:sc-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Gareth Westwood
Sent: 03 February 2004 16:02
To: South Cheshire GNU/Linux Users
Subject: Re: Democracy (was : RE: [SC.LUG] Bill Gates to be Knighted?)

Matthew Tolley wrote:

>Hi Guys!
>
>Sorry I missed you - I've been on the beach and taking time out this last
>couple of weeks - you even had a big debate and didn't invite me you
>rotters!!
>
>
He says, after being on the beach?

Sorry, must point out as I'm new that I rarely say anything in a {nasty,
abusive, told you so} fashion. please take all {seemingly,possibly}
{arrogant, rude, down talking} comments as sarcasm unless otherwise
stated-----No Really this bit is serious.

>Hmmm, a democratic society? Let me think...
>
>First, we abolish the office of Prime Minister and instead have all Senior
>Ministers elected directly by the people - the Chancellor, Transport
>Minister, Home Secretary, Foreign Secretary etc. At this point we would
also
>need to create a Minister of Elections and Referenda.
>
>
Sounds good

>Second, we remove all legislative powers from Parliament and have all laws
>made, amended and repealed by referendum. Once a month we all get a report
>of the questions to be put, go down to the polling station and put ticks or
>crosses next to the questions on the card, plus we choose our preferred
>candidate for office if an election is taking place at the same time.
>If we want to put a question to referendum oursleves, we just collect a
>reasonable number of signatures (say 5000), forward them to the Minister
for
>Referenda, and our question appears nationwide the next month. Ministers
>could also be elected, sacked and replaced by referendum.
>
>
Maybe a few more signatures would be better. (or maybe not)

>Next, we scrap Parliament and replace it with an Elected Council of, say,
20
>wise and senior persons which will act as a Watchdog over the democracy. It
>will have the power to summon Ministers, demand accounts, hear witnesses,
>and generally make sure that everyone is doing their job honestly. It
should
>have the power to sack Ministers in cases of serious abuse, and call an
>election for a replacement to be chosen. No legislative powers though.
>
>
Excellent, do these guys fall fowl to the......

 >John Southern wrote:

>How about a government department that can give people a good kicking.
>Very hard to get in, but then exempt from law.
>
>Sell drugs to kids - two kneecaps
>Litter - slap around the head
>Drunk drive - broken leg
>Support Man City - publicly laughed at (Hold on that one already works)

                               people if they step out of line or fail
to do there job properly?

>Also, we give precedence to smaller rather than larger groups. If the
people
>of Cheshire want to keep their District Councils, they can have a local
>referendum to decide the matter (it should not be decided by Diktat of
>Number 10, as is happening now). If the people of Derbyshire want to reduce
>the voting age to 16 in their County, they can pass such a law. If the
>people of North Staffordshire want their own Minister of Health, they can
>enact that, and secede from the NHS! If the people of Nantwich want to
>legalise Cannabis in Nantwich, they can decide that too. If Macclesfield
>wants to ban newspapers and magazines containing nudity, they can do. If
>Wilmslow wants to make nude pictures in newspapers compulsory, it could do.
>Congleton wants to scrap income tax for its residents? Let them scrap it!
>Local citizens would have the power to decide the boundaries, offices and
>powers of their local authorities.
>
>
Methinks there would have to be a lower size limit. Otherwise my family
could decide that within our house it's ok not to go to church on
Sundays. Or would we need 5000 sigs to put this law up for the 4 of us
to vote on?

>You get the picture.
>
>Lastly, you enshrine these principles in a written constitution. There
could
>be a few minimum standards of human rights in the constitution - no law,
>however popular, should be passed preventing someone from leaving a
>particular district, or leaving the country, for example. The localities
>should be prevented from raising private armies to prevent civil war, as
>another example. Other than those basics, leave it to the people.
>
>
But private armys are good thing.

>If you wanted the democracy to have a figurehead, you could have an elected
>Predident or a monarchy. Just let the people decide. The system would still
>work like clockwork whichever we chose.
>
>
Long live the Queen, (yes I know that Freddies Dead but the rest are
still with us)

>Any objections to this democratic system, chaps?
>
>Jason, what do you think?
>
>
>
>Matthew
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: sc-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk
>[mailto:sc-bounces at mailman.lug.org.uk]On Behalf Of Jason Lucas
>Sent: 25 January 2004 22:55
>To: dh at iucr.org
>Cc: South Cheshire GNU/Linux Users; Debbie Lucas; Rob Smith
>Subject: Re: [SC.LUG] Bill Gates to be Knighted?
>
>
>Or, as commonly quoted by Archaeologists - it's not what you know, it's
>who you know. Weber wrote some stuff about that - essentially it's the
>old boy's/girl's network. i.e - never underestimate the power of the
>Women's Institute, or indeed, the existent Aristocracy. There is no such
>thing as a truly democratic society. Never has been, never will be.
>
>However, I would be interested in views on how a purely democratic
>society would work.
>
>Jason.
>
>
>On Sun, 2004-01-25 at 20:37, David Holden wrote:
>
>
>>On Sunday 25 Jan 2004 8:19 pm, Jason Lucas wrote:
>>
>>
>>>According to the Telegraph
>>>
>>>
>>>
>(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/01/25/ngates25.x
>
>
>>>ml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/25/ixnewstop.html) (& reported on slashdot), Bill
>>>Gates is apparently due for a Knighthood. Presumably this will be part
>>>
>>>
>of
>
>
>>>the terms and conditions for Newham Council's budget M$ deal that
>>>
>>>
>displaced
>
>
>>>Linux as a contender for the Council's desktop environment. If other
>>>councils follow suit, does that mean that Gates will be made next
>>>
>>>
>in-line
>
>
>>>for the throne?
>>>
>>>Can you image it - Long Live King Bill Gates III!
>>>
>>>ttfn
>>>
>>>Jason.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>It would just prove what a joke the honours are - its all about patronage.
>>
>> Dave.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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>

--
Gareth Westwood
WFF Systems Ltd

www.wffsystems.co.uk

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