[SC.LUG] Trebus for Mac

[Alan Pope]

On 23/12/05, Frank Mitchell <mitchell at cloudynwuk.force9.co.uk> wrote:

> Can anybody tell me about Machine Parameters for Macs? I did ask somebody

You want people to give you information for free, yet you wont release
the code that you create based on that information for free?

> Well if you remember I did circulate some Source Code previously, and nobody
> was interested. That was my B-Tree, which actually forms part of Trebus.
> Here's the response from one LUG Administrator, as it appeared on the Web:

Circulating source code by mailing it to a bunch of people who may or
may not be interested has been proven not to be the right way to do it
these days. Get yourself some webspace, setup a sourceforge project or
whatever. Put the code there. Build it and they will come.

Mail it out unsolicited using some odd-ball licence that specifically
prohibits redistribution - to a number of Linux mailing lists I might
add - smacks of thoughtlessness at the least, and gross stupidity at
the worst.

if I think seriously about what would happen if I emailed out a
password protected closed source app to people I know what they'd
think. I just plain wouldn't do it.


> Later I figured out what happened: He had several Email Addresses, and
> that bug in Linux Email Software resulted in him getting each Email twice.
> Which was the entire reason for his annoyance.
>

I suspect his/her annoyance-o-meter was tripped into overdrive with
your first mail. Having to spend his/her own time administering mail
like the one you sent can only lead that person to get annoyed even
further.

> Other people saw his comment on the Web, and they were more interested. In
> fact I quickly became World-Famous.

You wrote a program. People wanted a copy. I wouldn't call it "world famous".

> I got a stream of Emails from Turkey,
> China, Brazil, and other far-flung places, wanting the Source Code for my
> B-Tree.

f that happened to me I'd be elated, extactic. The thought that a
creation of mine could be running on other peoples computers would put
a massive smile on my face.

> It soon became clear that most of these were Computing Students who
> wanted my Source Code to cheat on their coursework.

So? Who died and made you the arbiter of all that is righteous in the
realm of education and learning?

> Then I discovered two of
> these demands came from Indian Software Houses.
>

Good lord! Hold the front page!

> I made my B-Tree available under GPL on Bob Stout's "Snippets" Website and
> these Emails quickly tailed off. Obviously these characters quickly
> discovered the new location.
>

Standard operating procedure. Sounds similar to what happened with
Linus when he first started Linux. He put a message out to people,
many responded, so he put the (source) code up on an FTP server so
anyone could get to it. In fact it's what happens to many applications
that are developed with no thought for marketing. People see it, want
it and ask for it. if you put it on a website, people will see it and
help themselves.

> So that's what happens when you let everybody in the World see your Source
> Code.

Great isn't it! Why are you on all these Linux mailing lists if you're
so blinkered to Open Source software? I just don't get it. You don't
mind leeching off the talent of others but woe betide anyone who wants
"your" code.

> And it might be handy to have a Source
> Code Escrow in case the Author gets killed in a Road Accident or something.
> But why everybody, regardless?
>

You're asking why open source?  read this:
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html

> I was influenced by comments from Joerg Schilling

Hahaha. Not a smart move.

> they're Original Authors, they keep getting Support Demands for versions of
> their Software which have been modified in some way which they regard as all
> wrong.

Joerg Schilling is a crackpot. He has strong beliefs that don't match
those who also work on cdrecord. If he had his way we'd all be running
Solaris I'm sure.

> They've spent time trying to ensure their Software works properly,
> and now they'd prefer it to be left alone.

If you truly want to take your ball away with you at the end of the
match and be the non-benevolant dictator for life of the application
then go right ahead. Just don't wave it under the noses of people like
me. I don't appreciate being sent binary only software.

> Like me, they've probably met programmers who don't mind creating bugs.
>

Oh yeah. Every *other* programmer is crap, you're great. I hear
everyone in prison is innocent. Would you believe it!?

> In fact I believe we're approaching the day when Linux is stricken by the
> first Open-Source Virus. I can't understand other people's Source Code
> unless the Comments amount to a Write-Up. Can you?

For the small set of languages I know, yes. Have you seen how many
changes get committed to the Linux kernel in a month? It's incredible
how many diverse people work on the same set of code. It never ceases
to amaze me how and that it works.

> It would be very easy for
> somebody to take a desirable Open-Source Posix program and incorporate Viral
> Code or Spyware disguised as something else.

It's been tried with both sendmail and ssh and even the Linux kernel
itself. Has Linux and the Open Source community collapsed? No. We fix
the bugs and move on. More controls are put in place to ensure it
doesn't happen again. Peer review works.

> And there are Criminal Organisations who'd pay good money for this service.
>

I don't know where you're getting this kind of paranoid garbage from
but it smacks of excuse making.

> My experience of programming Trebus was the usual mixture of 50% Inspiration
> and 50% Frustration. I want other Linux Nerds to use it for free. But I'd
> have been very discouraged if there was no chance of being paid for my
> efforts.

So you're going to use us as bait in the hope that someone will come
along and snap you up and start paying you to develop software. Ok,
how do they get their money? They sell your software. You win, they
win, we lose. Nice.

> Hence my proposal for a LUGware Licence, which is basically an
> attempt to have it both ways. If Individual Users can get Trebus by joining
> their Local User Group this would be an incentive for people to participate.

There is already a metric shitload of software out there. Make
something better and they will come. You don't need to create cliques
in which to distribute your code. Many people in the Linux community
support open-ness. This smacks of a very closed set.

> And if you can still get Royalties from Corporate Users and Distributors
> this would be an incentive to invent Original Software, rather than fiddling
> about with other people's.
>

You CAN make money out of open source software. How on earth do you
think RedHat makes money? Yet the source for everything RedHat
releases is available. If they can, so can you.

> If you're an Open Source Purist, obviously you won't agree.

Oh, so dismiss everyone who doesn't agree as a purist? Not everyone is
a purist. I have some closed source apps on my machine. Those that I
choose to run, those that I need and those for which there are no
alternatives. All the while there's an open source cd burner app out
there that does even half of what yours does, I'll stay open thanks.
I'm not pure, just practical.

> But if you want
> Microsoft to feel competed-with you might see advantages.

I couldn't give a rats ass about Microsoft. They go their way, I'll go mine.

> There must be alot
> of  Windows stuff waiting to be converted to Linux if only the Authors knew
> they wouldn't be pressurised to reveal their Source Code.
>

Windows people write Open Source code too you know. Open source isn't
just the preserve of us "Linux Nerds" as you call us. My sister runs
Windows and her PC is chock full of open source software, I know, I
installed it.

> Admittedly not everybody wants Trebus.

Indeed. So I highly recommend you don't mail it out again. By all
means put up a web page, a bit of documentation and possibly later the
source. Maybe even send mails out announcing updates to your software
(however that will also piss people off if it's not open).

> I was a bit surprised, because I joined North Wales LUG years ago. Recently

Just because you have been a member of a LUG doesn't mean you get
carte blanche to piss people off ad-hoc!

> I bought Debian Sarge from A-Wing, so Andrew Hutchings knows my Name &
> Address, and I couldn't get away with a Virus Attack.

Many system admins don't trust email headers as they can be faked. I
guess he was taking normal necessary precautions to ensure his system
integrity wasn't compromised. Sounds utterly sensible to me.

Cheers,
Al.