[sclug] Whcih distro

Tue May 9 20:26:47 UTC 2006

Thanks guys!

I guess the best choice will be Ubuntu.... or Kubuntu.... or Centos.... 
or FC... or Suse .....or maybe something else :-)

Seriously, I think on balance I'll let my Dad go with Ubuntu, because 
Gnome is simple but different enough to Windoze to eliminate the old 
tricks, and the underlying Debian is pretty solid.

Ha anyone tried Mepis? I'm quite impressed with it - a sort of a fork of 
Ubuntu using KDE, but very polished I've found. For a desktop distro 
I've so far found little to criticise.

Thanks for everyone's input,

Neil.

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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. What distro? (Neil Haughton)
>    2. Re: What distro? (Simon Champion)
>    3. Re: What distro? (Pieter Claassen)
>    4. Re: What distro? (Alex Butcher)
>    5. Re: What distro? (ed)
>    6. Re: What distro? (John Stumbles)
>    7. Re: What distro? (John Stumbles)
>    8. vim 7 out (ed)
>    9. Re: What distro? (David Given)
>   10. Re: What distro? (Alex Butcher)
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [sclug] What distro?
> From:
> Neil Haughton <n.a.haughton at bigfoot.com>
> Date:
> Mon, 08 May 2006 19:27:19 +0100
> To:
> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>
> To:
> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>
>
> Slight twist to this question - my Dad (86) who has fought a fight 
> with Windows 98 since, well about 1998 I guess, has had enough and is 
> about to take the Linux plunge.  The question is which distro would be 
> most suitable?  Ubuntu is quite popular out there (South Africa) in 
> the Linux world, for obvious reasons I suppose, but I wonder if Gnome 
> might be a little too strange after the W98 interface. He only needs 
> email, (currently Outlook Express), a diary thing (currently Lotus 
> Organised from Lotus Smartsuite), a word-processor and spreadsheet 
> (currently Wordpad and I'm not sure what for the spreadsheet - 
> probably Lotus 123), and something well integrated to view images (jpg 
> etc). Decent screen savers, wallpapers, sound to work out of the box, 
> and so on. The bells and whistles to work painlessly, in other words, 
> and it must be robust.
>
> Other candidates are Mepis (impressive, like Ubuntu but with KDE 3.5 
> instead and nicely polished) and maybe the biggies such as Mandriva or 
> Suse10, but at times I've found Mandriva quite fragile around the edges.
>
> What are your opinions about this?
>
> Neil.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [sclug] What distro?
> From:
> Simon Champion <simon at spudley.com>
> Date:
> Mon, 8 May 2006 20:08:35 +0100
> To:
> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>
> To:
> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>
>
> On Monday 08 May 2006 19:27, Neil Haughton wrote:
>   
>> Slight twist to this question - my Dad (86) who has fought a fight with
>> Windows 98 since, well about 1998 I guess, has had enough and is about
>> to take the Linux plunge.  The question is which distro would be most
>> suitable?  Ubuntu is quite popular out there (South Africa) in the Linux
>> world, for obvious reasons I suppose, but I wonder if Gnome might be a
>> little too strange after the W98 interface.
>>     
>
> Well.... there's always Kubuntu, which is Ubuntu+KDE. The benefits of Ubuntu 
> with the familiarity of KDE.
>
> Other than that (and since he's so far away that you're not likely to be able 
> to go over and help him out when he needs a hand), I'd suggest going for one 
> that is easy to install and easy to maintain. And for that reason, I'd 
> suggest Suse. (And on the bright side, the final version of Suse 10.1 is due 
> out any day now.... aparently)
>
> Hope that helps.  :)
>
>
>
>     Simon C.
>   
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> Re: [sclug] What distro?
> From:
> Pieter Claassen <pieter at claassen.co.uk>
> Date:
> Mon, 8 May 2006 21:39:33 +0200
> To:
> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>
> To:
> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>
>
> I just installed Kubuntu and I am impressed because mostly everything works.  
> Why don't you download the ubuntu and kubuntu live cd's and let him have try 
> on each? In reality the difference between Ubuntu and Kubuntu is only some 
> apt installs so no matter which way you go, the only problem with switching 
> will be user momentum ;-) (so don't do it often)
>
> apt-get install [kubuntu-desktop|gnome]
>
>   
>> Well.... there's always Kubuntu, which is Ubuntu+KDE. The benefits of
>> Ubuntu with the familiarity of KDE.
>>
>>     
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [sclug] What distro?
>> From:
>> Alex Butcher <lug at assursys.co.uk>
>> Date:
>> Mon, 8 May 2006 22:04:19 +0100 (BST)
>> To:
>> Neil Haughton <n.a.haughton at bigfoot.com>
>>
>> To:
>> Neil Haughton <n.a.haughton at bigfoot.com>
>> CC:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 8 May 2006, Neil Haughton wrote:
>>
>>> Slight twist to this question - my Dad (86) who has fought a fight 
>>> with Windows 98 since, well about 1998 I guess, has had enough and 
>>> is about to take the Linux plunge.  The question is which distro 
>>> would be most suitable?
>>
>> My Dad's happily using CentOS 4.2 (RHEL clone) and before that FC1. He
>> adapted fairly readily to Linux, probably due to him not having much
>> intimate knowledge of how Windows was /actually/ working. Things I 
>> had to
>> do:
>>
>> - the install, obviously :-)
>> - periodically, take along a USB HDD with the updates on (he's only 
>> got 56k
>>   dialup).
>> - put some icons for his commonly-used apps in the taskbar (OO.o, 
>> Mozilla
>>   email, Firefox, Konqueror, GIMP, gphoto, the RH network interface 
>> control
>>   applet).
>> - periodically fix things as he discovers them 
>> misconfigured/unconfigured or
>>   otherwise broken.
>> - tweak the fonts so they're most readable for him (a couple of points
>>   larger than I would use on the same monitor, IIRC - one significant
>>   advantage over Windows for those of advanced years!).
>>
>> I picked FC and CentOS because they're both Free, free, and I feel
>> completely happy maintaining them and supporting him, over an SSH 
>> link if
>> needs be. I moved from FC to CentOS in order to have a longer lifecycle
>> before I need to upgrade. When I do, I'll do it the same way I did 
>> the FC to
>> CentOS upgrade; install onto a HDD, then take it along and swap it 
>> with the
>> old one, and copying his data before I remove the old disc.
>>
>> Things he likes about Linux includes: no viruses, no bluescreens, no 
>> random
>> loss of configuration settings, Firefox.
>>
>>> Ubuntu is quite popular out there (South Africa) in the Linux world, 
>>> for obvious reasons I suppose, but I wonder if Gnome might be a 
>>> little too strange after the W98 interface.
>>
>> Does he really use the W98 interface in anything like an 'expert' 
>> manner? Or
>> does he just use it to start programs and manage files? If so, virtually
>> anything will be adequate. Personally, I think GNOME is better for new
>> Windows converts as KDE looks too similar and makes them think all 
>> their old
>> tricks will work. GNOME reinforces the understanding that Linux is Not
>> Windows.
>>
>>> He only needs email, (currently Outlook Express), a diary thing 
>>> (currently
>>> Lotus Organised from Lotus Smartsuite), a word-processor and 
>>> spreadsheet
>>> (currently Wordpad and I'm not sure what for the spreadsheet - probably
>>> Lotus 123), and something well integrated to view images (jpg etc).
>>
>> Email: Evolution/Thunderbird/Mozilla Email
>> Calendar: Evolution/?
>> WP: OO.o Writer
>> Spreadsheet: OO.o Calc
>> Image Viewer: GIMP (overkill, but..), xv, eog (aka Eye of Gnome), gliv
>>
>>> Decent screen savers, wallpapers,
>>
>> Really?
>>
>>> sound to work out of the box, and so on.
>>
>> Any decent desktop-focused distro should be able to configure sound, 
>> these
>> days.
>>
>>> What are your opinions about this?
>>
>> You asked, you got. :-)
>>
>>> Neil.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Alex.
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [sclug] What distro?
>> From:
>> ed <ed at s5h.net>
>> Date:
>> Mon, 8 May 2006 22:23:51 +0100
>> To:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>> To:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 08 May 2006 19:27:19 +0100
>> Neil Haughton <n.a.haughton at bigfoot.com> wrote [trimed]:
>>
>>     
>>> be most  suitable?  Ubuntu is quite popular out there (South Africa)
>>>       
>>
>> Well since Ububtu is popular out there I suggest that you advise a
>> Ububtu live CD for now, since they have the freedom toaster I suspect
>> he may well at least find someone else who has tried Ubuntu when caught
>> in a stitch.
>>
>> The live CD is great and it includes all the mentioned requirements
>> (email, office utils viewers).
>>
>>     
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [sclug] What distro?
>> From:
>> John Stumbles <john at stumbles.org.uk>
>> Date:
>> Mon, 08 May 2006 23:09:38 +0100
>> To:
>> sclug <sclug at sclug.org.uk>
>>
>> To:
>> sclug <sclug at sclug.org.uk>
>>
>>
>> Pieter Claassen wrote:
>>> I just installed Kubuntu and I am impressed because mostly 
>>> everything works.  Why don't you download the ubuntu and kubuntu 
>>> live cd's and let him have try on each? In reality the difference 
>>> between Ubuntu and Kubuntu is only some apt installs so no matter 
>>> which way you go, the only problem with switching will be user 
>>> momentum ;-) (so don't do it often)
>>
>> But remember that if you start with gnome and install kde you need to
>> select the appropriate session type at the logon screen to actually 
>> get kde
>> </newbie-gotcha>
>>
>> (unless it's changed since hoary)
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [sclug] What distro?
>> From:
>> John Stumbles <john at stumbles.org.uk>
>> Date:
>> Mon, 08 May 2006 23:25:53 +0100
>> To:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>> To:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>>
>> Alex Butcher wrote:
>>
>>> Does he really use the W98 interface in anything like an 'expert' 
>>> manner? Or
>>> does he just use it to start programs and manage files? If so, 
>>> virtually
>>> anything will be adequate. Personally, I think GNOME is better for new
>>> Windows converts as KDE looks too similar and makes them think all 
>>> their old
>>> tricks will work. GNOME reinforces the understanding that Linux is Not
>>> Windows.
>>
>> OTOH for someone used to windoze keyboard shortcuts being able to set 
>> kde to Redmond mode is a relief. Alt-Space + N/X to 
>> minimize/maximise, Alt-F4/^F4 to close (ptui! - I do prefer ^Q/^W) 
>> ... even Ctrl-Esc for start-apps menu. (I had to use a 'doze box the 
>> other day and found that my fingers still remembered how to copy & 
>> paste in a DOS window, but I can't consciously tell you what keys 
>> they were!)
>>
>>
>>> Image Viewer: GIMP (overkill, but..), xv, eog (aka Eye of Gnome), gliv
>> I like gwenview, and sometimes kuickshow.
>>
>> Maybe also a notepad equivalent[1] - kwrite / kate / gedit / ...?
>>
>> And a calculator?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] well the nearest we get to an equivalent in Linux, i.e. something 
>> that isn't braindead. Gah! the number of times I've chewed the carpet 
>> trying to view a file with non-CRLFs in notepad [shudder]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> [sclug] vim 7 out
>> From:
>> ed <ed at s5h.net>
>> Date:
>> Mon, 8 May 2006 23:33:56 +0100
>> To:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>> To:
>> sclug at sclug.org.uk
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Those who prefer emacs press delete now.
>>
>> I hope to give it a good go tomorrow. I hope I'm not jumping on a band
>> wagon here (I suppose the world has lasted this long without some of the
>> recent changes).
>>
>> http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/08/168217
>>
>>     
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [sclug] What distro?
>> From:
>> David Given <dg at cowlark.com>
>> Date:
>> Tue, 09 May 2006 01:26:21 +0100
>> To:
>> sclug <sclug at sclug.org.uk>
>>
>> To:
>> sclug <sclug at sclug.org.uk>
>>
>>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> John Stumbles wrote:
>> [...]
>>     
>>> But remember that if you start with gnome and install kde you need to
>>> select the appropriate session type at the logon screen to actually get kde
>>> </newbie-gotcha>
>>>       
>>
>> It remembers the last one you used, so you only have to pick it once.
>>
>> For a beginner, I'd strongly, strongly recommend Ubuntu and Gnome. I wouldn't
>> go for Kubuntu; it doesn't have as nearly so much polish as Ubuntu does, and
>> the user interface relies heavily on evil unmarked icons. Ubuntu has some
>> truly great administration tools --- I've never seen a Linux before where you
>> can configure the networking settings via the GUI and *it works* --- and so on.
>>
>> If you were to wait about a month, then Ubuntu Dapper will be released. This
>> features an awesome installation system where you just boot the LiveCD, play
>> with it, and if you like it run a nice, simple-to-use, GUI program and it
>> installs it for you. No more debian-installer!
>>
>> - --
>> +- David Given --McQ-+ "If you're up against someone more intelligent
>> |  dg at cowlark.com    | than you are, do something insane and let him think
>> | (dg at tao-group.com) | himself to death." --- Pyanfar Chanur
>> +- www.cowlark.com --+
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>>
>> iD8DBQFEX+Gtf9E0noFvlzgRAg9NAKCFln0JYSVQq4g2ul7CwgB/bOKYHACgoA8M
>> cV1bXX17Lqz1RWXpDWvbVeo=
>> =Y/+n
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>     
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Subject:
>> Re: [sclug] What distro?
>> From:
>> Alex Butcher <lug at assursys.co.uk>
>> Date:
>> Tue, 9 May 2006 09:45:22 +0100 (BST)
>> To:
>> David Given <dg at cowlark.com>
>>
>> To:
>> David Given <dg at cowlark.com>
>> CC:
>> sclug <sclug at sclug.org.uk>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 9 May 2006, David Given wrote:
>>
>>> Ubuntu has some truly great administration tools --- I've never seen a
>>> Linux before where you can configure the networking settings via the 
>>> GUI
>>> and *it works* --- and so on.
>>
>> It's worked in RH for years. The only gotcha would be wireless, but even
>> that's now doable out-of-the-box with FC5.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Alex.
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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