[Sussex] Newbie to the list

[Steve Dobson]

Hi Matt

On Sat, Aug 02, 2003 at 12:31:57PM +0100, Matt Taylor wrote:
> > > We now use Gentoo for almost everything at work, from the lowly print
> > > server up to web and database/transaction servers for the ecommerce sites
> > > we build and host.
> >
> > Whatever rocks your boat.  I would never have though of Gentoo in a
> > production environment, but if it works for you then go for it.
> 
> I've had several people say that to me. I'm not sure why it matters.

For me it is a question of testing.  Gentoo prides itself on being close
to the cutting edge.  The closer you are the more chance of there is of a
bug raising its head.

>                                                                       When I 
> install Gentoo on one of our Dell boxes I install the bare minimum software 
> that that box needs to run, i.e enough to get it to boot and to start an ssh 
> server! We usually use vanilla kernels and only patch when really necessary 
> (like the ext3 fixes before 2.4.21 came out) Then we install whatever else is 
> needed on top i.e. apache+resin/postgres/qmail.... We've never had any OS 
> stability problems with any of our servers. In fact atm it's the hardware 
> letting us down (dodgy scsi drives in Dell machines).

That maybe because the "packages" you install are well tested up stream by 
the projects.  I guess your not taking that days CVS HEAD code from the project
but going for an official release.

> I'm sure that exactly the same effect can be achieved using Debian.

Absolutely.  I'm not holding Debian to be better but different.  The time 
spent in testing causing the software on a Debian releases to be somewhat old.
But when it releases it does works - and advantage for a production environment
like your I would have thought.

>                                                                      I moved 
> away from distros like Redhat and Mandrake 'cause I couldn't stand rpm hell. 

It was the "apt-get dist-upgrade" that impressed me with Debian.  It is so
reliable that I just leave it running overnight.

> I didn't spend very long with Debian so I can't make any substaintial claims 
> about what it can or can't do. I've been happy with Gentoo so far as it 
> allows me to do these simple installations without any cruft. If Gentoo 
> disappeared one day I would probably switch to Debian or maybe FreeBSD or 
> even build from scratch! :)

And I would go the other way.  Using Debian has reduced the amount of time I
spend doing SysAdmin work and allows me to get on with what I really want to
do.  That is after all want we all want from a distro.

> I think that quite often the distribution argument misses the point. For me 
> the interesting part of Gentoo is the packaging system, anything else is just 
> linux and software. Note the efforts to port portage to OSX and cooperate 
> with the fink system. More often than not I end up compiling from source to 
> get the specific config I want, if I have tools to support that effort even 
> better. 

A good point.  It is the various packaging system and the packets that make
the distro.  I was put of Gentoo when I visited Geoff a few months back, he
was partway though full rebuild, and it was going to take all weekend.  In my
afternoon visit I was able to do a complete upgrade from one release to the
next.

In the end what matters is keeping an open mind.  I like the fact that there
are different distros and that gives us a choice in what we use.  I don't want
Debian to take over the world, that would limit choice just as much as if
M$ did.  I will continue to advocate Debian on the advantages that it gives me.
I fully expect Geoff and you to fly the Gentoo flag.  If either of you manage
to convince me that I would be "overall" better off running Gentoo then I will
give it a go.  From what I've seen so far I'm not tempted to even try it on
a spare machine.  But that is me.

Steve