[Sussex] RE: [Sussex] An odd question....

[Dominic Clay]

Hi Adam,

I have to say, I agree with Geoff and Steve on this subject...

I started out from school aged 16 as a trainee research chemist working 4
days a week and doing a degree 'day release' for 5 years.
I know that not many employers can offer this though. I was lucky.   Even
with this type of degree, I know my colleagues considered my education
lesser than there own (Uni based)..  It is the hard truth.  I had a job, and
I'm sure I would keep it, but my colleagues would be promoted over my head.

Later I decided on a career change and went to do another University based
1st degree.
This time I went purely for the status and paper!!!  I went to Imperial
College.  I hated it, the snobbery was extreme, the lectures were seriously
poor compared to the lowly tech colleges I had studied at previously, but
when I left I noticed the difference immediately!  People considered me
worth a look (*worth the risk* too!!!).  It got me interviews, and
*probably* got me jobs.  When you're in, you need the experience to keep up
peoples belief in you, but *paper* talks!!!

Everyone around you now has a degree.  Most professional (Chartered)
organisations are starting to require 2nd degrees as criteria to join.  This
just proves how the 'common grey spotted undergrad degree' is roughly the
equivalent of an old GCE A level!!!

The 'Old Boys Club' is sycophantic and nepotistic, but you might as well be
in and ignore them than out, saying you didn't want to join anyway!!!

Sorry this might be a little forceful, but having been on both sides of the
fence and spent the last *9* years working very hard to pay off
student/relocation debts (Gone as of this month after NINE YEARS!!!!!!!).  I
think I have a voice to be heard here.  

Good luck in all your chosen careers :)

Dominic


-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Teale [mailto:Geoff.Teale at claybrook.co.uk] 
Sent: 06 January 2003 10:12
To: Sussex (E-mail)
Subject: Re: [Sussex] An odd question....


Morning Adam,

>Hi.  You guys seem like the right sort of people to ask about this, and 
>I
know I'm >not going to get my head bitten off for asking here, so I have a
little query for >you.

We don't tend to bite anyone's head of for anything, which I like ;)

>I'm currently at Park College, Eastbourne doing AS levels, planning to 
>go
onto 
>university, as this is the normal path to take to get a good career.
However, I'm >hearing a lot of stories about graduates having serious
problems finding work, 
>even after spending ~6 years of their life and thousands of pounds 
>getting
a 
>degree.

Well, in short.  What has changed in the last 20 years is that a degree
nolonger guarantees you a good job - once upon a time having a degree was
rare - this isn't true anymore.  

You may be reading about how hard it is for graduates to find jobs, but I
have to say that people without degrees will be finding it even harder.
We're now in an environment where call-centres expect there staff to be
degree educated.

As for your work experience.  Well, right now the IT jobs market is not in
it's best ever state.  Your experience is, frankly, not going to impress
anyone - until you've got 12 to 18 months working in a corporate IT
environment most recruiters wouldn't even take the time to interview you.

What you need to decide is what you actually want to _do_ in IT.  

If you want to be a support/installation engineer then you can start
applying for jobs now, start from the bottom, build up experience and build
a career.  There are certainly several such people on the list, and I know
Nik Butler, for instance, will talk very strongly in favour of getting out
there and getting on with it.  This is because these jobs are strongly based
around the practical skills of setting up hardware and learning to
use/configure specific software packages. There is a lot of theory in there
and learning it will make you a better engineer, but this can be done over
time.

However, if you want to be a Analyst programmer, Systems Analyst, Technical
Architect, etc, etc, you are going to have to learn a lot of stuff before
you'll make the grade.  You don't have to go to University to do this, but
frankly it is the best environment in which to do so and a degree _will_
help you get a job.  If you look at some of the better jobs in this market
they _only_ recrute graduates with a 2:1 or above from a good university and
5 years plus commercial experience, that is the hard reality.



-- 
geoff.teale at claybrook.co.uk
tealeg at member.fsf.org
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