[Sussex] GFDL

Geoffrey J. Teale gteale at cmedltd.com
Tue Apr 5 14:54:45 UTC 2005


Steve Dobson <steve at dobson.org> writes:

> Geoff

> An impasse - yes.  We do have an impasse here.

Hmm, look more like an impala to me now I look at it...

> Agreed - the best we appear to be able to do is to beg to differ.

Ah.. the gentle sound of a long discussion petering out...

> Well any code covered by a US software patent is not free to use in the USA
> unless the patent holder has granted a license to use them.  The only one to do
> that (IIRC) is IBM with some of its patents.  Sun's release of its patents
> doesn't count because they are only allowed if licensed under the CDDL.

I would suggest that it is beyond the abilities of the Debian project
to know what code they distribute is relevant to patents.  This may
come out in the fullness of time though.  However this issue doesn't
exist in documentation, have you tried patenting natural language?
  
> IIRC RMS once endorsed Debian GNU/Linux as a "Free" (FSF defined free) distro,
> but removed it because of the non-free section.  And while I do not agree
> with RMS on this point I do respect his position.

The Non-Free sections are not the only problem, but they are the main
one.  I accept that there are pracical reasons to include this
software and Debian's separation of it is a Good Thing (TM) compared
to many other distros approach.  However it is useful from the FSF's
point of view to point out that things aren't wholly free.

Remember we, like the conservatives, get our mantra from "Pinky and
the brain".  The conservatives have lifted:

"Are you thinking what I'm thinking Pinky?"
"Uh, I think so, Brain, but this time, you wear the tutu."

... and we've lifted:

"What are we going to do tomorrow Brain?"
"The same thing we do every day Pinky.  Try to take over the world!"


> Well maybe I was being a little over dogmatic, but I wanted to make sure
> my point was made.  As of a solution, maybe there isn't one, but that feels
> wrong to me somehow.  I feel there is always a solution if only you know 
> how to define it.  But then again I am not a lawyer.

You don't want to go hanging out with lawyers.. it's bad for your
sanity (I'm glad my wife doesn't read this list).

> Well the bits that allow for related political rants then - those are the
> bits I call "free form".

OK.  

> Agreed, but that is make work.  I have to regenerated all the work that I
> want that has already been done - rather than just remove the few words that
> I do not.  That isn't efficient is it?

No, but I refer again to the law.

> True, but I don't want start a prescient of rejecting everything from
> an author just because I disagree with his political viewpoint.  I don't
> think that Gandhi was a bad political leader just because he supported
> the cast system.

No.. but his C code sucked :-)

> So lets agree that we need to reform the IP law that has caused this
> impasse.

Aha! - exactly what the FSF is trying to do.  We are now officially
involved in WIPO and working to change the view point of it's
members.  

See, we're not such a bunch of meanies really :-)

> I believe that you do.  But you have not yet shown me why your ways is
> the less evil than mine.  

I don't think what you are saying is "evil", just not practical in
terms of current law.

> You just state that publishers need invariant
> sections in the form currently embodied in the GFDL.  Don't tell me to
> go read the GFDL because I did that some time ago.  It is the solution
> not the reasoning behind the solution.  E = MC^2 is meaningless to me 
> without the thought experiments that show me how it works.
>
>>                                                       Software is
>> different, the GPL states that there is no warranty - how do you
>> warranty prose, how do you protect variations in it.
>
> I have never (in this thread) stated otherwise - that was other people.
> I see the need to a different license for documentation from source code.
> I just don't see that they need to take the form of the GFDL.

I'm probably not the man to work it all out, but I know the man who is
- why not submit some questions on Larry Lessig's site?

-- 
Geoff Teale
CMed Technology            -   gteale at cmedresearch.com
Free Software Foundation   -   tealeg at member.fsf.org

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