[Sussex] Scary..

[Geoffrey J. Teale]

On Thu, 2005-06-02 at 19:11 +0100, Steve Dobson wrote:

> It is worth remembering that there is a big difference between unions
> here and in the US.  Love her or hate her Thatcher's reforms of union 
> law have helped make the unions more accountable and democratic - this
> is a good thing.  I don't believe that these reforms exist in the US.

I think that the history of the Union movement in the USA is far more
torrid than the UK history.   The IWW's history is one of oppression and
intimidation (on behalf of powerful businessmen).  

While the role of unions in the UK has changed a lot since the 1970s and
80s the real difference both here, and in the US, is that the industrial
workforce (where union support is strong) has slowly evaporated and been
replaced by service industries where unions have had little impact.   

Equally the amount of legislation that exists to protect employees from
their employers worse instincts has increased, meaning that there is
less need for unions.   That said, it's only my dad's membership of the
GMBU that's safeguarding _any_ of his company pension.   

> I view (maybe wrongly) that the company/union relationships in the US
> are more like they were here in the 60s and 70s - a them and us 
> relationship.

Again, in the US unions are less relevant to most peoples jobs today
than they once where, although the US doesn't protect employees to
anything like the extent that the EU does.

There's also been a systematic demonisation of left wing principles
since the days of cointelpro which means for a large portion of
Americans feel that unions are communists who are anti "the American
way".     Countering that is a "folk" culture that surrounds unions, and
hero worship that goes with it.  

Here's a quote that lists some incidents that occurred in the earliest
days of the IWW's history in the first few years of the 20th century:  

"Joseph Michalish was shot to death by a mob of so-called citizens.
Michael Hoey was beaten to death in San Diego. Samuel Chinn was so
brutally beaten in the county jail at Spokane, Washington, that he
died from the injuries. Joseph Hillstrom was judicially murdered
within the walls of the penitentiary at Salt Lake City, Utah. Anna
Lopeza, a textile worker, was shot and killed, and two other Fellow
Workers were murdered during the strike at Lawrence, Massachusetts.
Frank Little, a cripple, was lynched by hirelings of the Copper
Trust at Butte, Montana. John Looney, A. Robinowitz, Hugo Gerlot,
Gustav Johnson, Felix Baron, and others were killed by a mob of
Lumber Trust gunmen on the Steamer Verona at the dock at Everett,
Washington. J. A. Kelly was arrested and re-arrested at Seattle,
Washington; finally died from the effects of the frightful treatment
he received. Four members of the I. W. W. were killed at Grabow,
Louisiana, where thirty were shot and seriously wounded. Two members
were dragged to death behind an automobile at Ketchikan, Alaska."
 

... of all those names I'd suggest a quick google for "Joeseph
Hillstrom", to find the discrepancy between what he was officially
executed for, and what the _real_ reason was.  Here's a hint, "Joeseph
Hillstrom" invented the phrase "pie in the sky". 


> If I am correct, then any middle or upper management that were to read
> Enderle's article could get the impression that Linux adoption could
> lead to problems like allowing unions into the company have lead to
> problems.

Absolutely.

> Any new system (business process, technology, whatever) has to be
> handled in the appropriate way.  A ruler can become a tyrant, a company
> monopolistic.  But the wise learn from the past and try to improve things
> with each new phase.  While I do not subscribe to the theory that a
> change is either good or evil, I do subscribe to the theory that mankind
> has manage to pick those changes that have increased the overall good.
> I believe that Western Civilisation is better than Roman or Greek 
> civilisation, as they were for the civilisation that came before.
> 
> So what I think we are seeing here is FUD is part of the older,
> property order, attempting to hang on to what they understand.  Linux
> is showing that there is a new way writing software, maybe of even
> doing business as a whole.  I do not believe that Linux is the Answer,
> but I do believe that Linux is one stepping stone on one of the paths
> to the Answer.  I can't tell you what the Answer is, I don't even think
> I know what the Question is.  :-)

F/L/OSS is the answer, Linux is an example solution.  :-)


> Enderle, O'Gara and others appears to be just providing a line that 
> helps prop up the old order, helps maintain the status quo.  It is
> carefully crafted, but I don't believe that those writing it believe
> that what they are writing is an honest account of the events.

I've heard people who preach this kind of thing without a hint or irony.
Without resorting to stereotypes, I would point out that a country that
could spawn the John Birch society is more likely to have people who
hold such views.

> Well, I've been reading Groklaw a lot, as a result I read this knowing
> more of the events Enderle was mis-reporting, at little Google and
> searching was enough to provide the facts in a new light. :-)

:- )


-- 
Geoffrey J. Teale <tealeg at member.fsf.org>
Free Software Foundation