[Sussex] A little translation please

[Steven Dobson]

Andy

On Fri, 2006-06-23 at 10:28 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2006 at 11:12:43AM +0100, Steven Dobson wrote:
> > On Fri, 2006-06-23 at 09:28 +0000, Andy Smith wrote:
> > > (point is, maybe you should be asking actual users of your software,
> > > or paying someone; software translation is possibly the most boring
> > > job after ironing)
> > 
> > Do you get the FOSS idea, Alan? 
> 
> (I'm Andy) Yes, I think so, but do you?

I think so, but lets let others be the judge.

> > Did you personally pay anything to Linus Torvalds, Alan Cox, RMS
> > and all the of millons and millons of other software developers
> > that have spent their time and skill to produce the software that
> > you use?
> 
> Not directly no - but neither did they turn up in my mailbox, say
> "1.8 million people are using Linux; please can one of you write a
> device driver for my USB kettle?"

I would first like to point out the my orginal post turned up in your
mailbox not by my design, but by yours.  You signed up to the SLUG mail
list.  A list run by and for the memmbers.  Part of it's role is to
provide a method for those that need some help to ask those that may be
able to provide some.

> I'm trying to tell you that your strategy is not likely to be
> terribly successful.  I am telling you this as a Free software
> author who has needed people to do translations in the past.
> Contacting random non-users of your software and saying "there's a
> lot of you here, can some of you do some translations for me
> please?" is not likely to work.

But it was successful.  Armin (thanks again) responded that, as a natice
speaker of German from Austria, he be happy to help.  I am a believer in
"If you don't ask you don't get" way of thinking.

> Having actual users and then saying to THEM, "translating this
> software that you use to another language is on my TODO list, some
> help would be great, thanks" may be more successful.

That is part of my plan too.  The software was written to "scratch the
itch" of a client.  I convinced him that the Free Software model was
worthing using to have the software developed.  We are planning or
marketing the system with the services that go along with it as an
revenue generator for his company.

The most likely translation path is for a company that wants a
French/German/... version.  If they ask "How long will it take to
support French>"  or answer can be along the lines of "How long until
you can lend us someone to help with the translation?"

All of your other ideas on how to get the stuff translated has occured
to me.  I just just trying here for a little help in a small part now.

> > I have been on this list for years now.  I've given far more than I've
> > taken.  If I see an unanswered question that I can help with I reply,
> > some times I add to the answers of others, and I do this with no thought
> > of charging.
> 
> As do many people, but translating software that you don't use is a
> big ask.

Translating all the GUI text is a big task.  That is why I didn't post
that file (it's over 900 lines short which some 788 messages; and still
growing).  But the web interface which has an authentcation phase is
much smaller and is probably done.

> > So why now, when _I_ lack a skill, when _I_ need help, should _I_ have
> > to pay?  Why can I not ask for help from those I've help in the past?
> 
> Because it is the most effective way of getting this done.

I don't disagree with you, and as I said earlier I have other options in
time.

> I susepct that of the people you have helped over the years on this
> list, very few of them use the software/web service you are
> developing.  What stake do they have in your product?

And I can ask what stake to I personally have in helping them get their
systems working?

If your answer to that is "It increases the number of Linux users."
then I can use that answer too.

<snip>

> You may have heard of the term "scratching an itch".  Does the
> prospect of translating someone else's work in a field that is
> uninteresting to you scratch any itches?

Isn't the point of "scatching _your_own_ itch" that you will scratch
someone else's ictch too?  I want to use software that is accessable to
all.  Not just speakers of a forign language but those that need
assistive technologies to use a computer.  If I knew of a blind user on
this list I would be asking for their help in testing by software for
use by those with visual problems.

So while those I am asking for help translating now may not be uses of
my software, I am hoping that the itch we both scratch is better
software for _all_!  I would not be supprised if Armin favoured software
that could present text to him in German over software than was English
only.  As far as I can tell he has no need of such software, his command
of the English language is exerlent.

> > For me the FOSS movement is not about giving software away for free, it
> > is all about helping each other out.  Together we are much greater than
> > the sum of our parts.
> 
> It's one aspect, and I have helped you out by giving you this advice
> for free.

You're first reply wrapped in the "ironing" dig just put by back out of
joint.  The advice it did offer was lost on first reading because of
that. 

> I will spend my time helping others in proportion to my
> interest in subject and I suspect most people are the same.

As will I.

Steve
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