[SWLUG] #swlug IRC channel location - reasons to move

[Dave Cridland]

On Mon Aug 15 12:22:54 2005, Pete Prior wrote:
> Maybe this split is a good thing.  It seems to have seperated out 
> the people who want to do something in the lug from the people are 
> quite happy with sitting back and doing nothing.
> 
> Perhaps this split could be applied in ways other than online?
> 
> 
So basically, you're saying that if I don't agree with you, then 
therefore I cannot be in the same LUG? Or, alternately, this is yet 
another ad hominem argument. I'm not sure which, and I'm not sure it 
matters. I'm just trying to provide a counter argument. You were good 
enough to construct some form of argument, therefore I will rise to 
the occasion and attempt to counter it. I assumed that was, well, the 
point of posting in the first place, wasn't it?


> For the record, the people who donate servers "provide the service" 
> to the several thousand users.  

Yes, indeed they do.

Let's suppose there was a major software project, and that those 
people who contributed code had no input into how the software 
project as a whole was licensed. They could agree with the license, 
or they could simply not take part. Would this be unfair on those who 
contribute?

That's all that's happening here, with people contributing resource 
to a project. If the server donators (and frankly, they're not 
donating servers, but bandwidth, of course) don't want to be part of 
the network, nobody is forcing them to. If they do, then great, the 
network obviously benefits as a whole. But I wouldn't like to see the 
network change because of the views of a small group of people who 
happen to have the resources. (Even if I agree with some of their 
views).

Bear in mind, also, that the server donators are not the only ones 
contributing value to freenode - all the users are arguably 
considerably more important as a whole, even thought the resource 
they provide the network in monetary - or indirectly monetary - terms 
is individually minute.

> I don't see lilo contributing much useful input to the freenode 
> network.

Apart from the network itself, of course. Arguably, he also started 
OFTC, and all the other IRC networks aiming to be a home for many 
projects, since they essentially copy his vision.

I'm sure that Lilo isn't perfect, but the comments made *about* him 
seem rather a lot more unpleasant than the comments made *by* him.

Fundamentally, my sole wish with #swlug is, quite simply, to talk to 
fellow lug members about matters technical and non-technical, and not 
have to worry about the perils of IRC too much. That's all.

If it were down to me, we wouldn't be using IRC at all, incidentally. 
It's a really appalling protocol, as anyone who's implemented it can 
tell you. (DCC is exceptional in its crassness, mind, but IRC in 
general is pretty dire.) Unfortunately, we're stuck with IRC. So 
being stuck with IRC, we might as well make the best we can from it. 
That, oddly enough, also seems to be Lilo's driving force, which is 
why I feel that Freenode is the best choice.

Dave.