[Wylug-discuss] Linux on the desktop (was [Wylug-help] Fw: Re: Installing a speedtouch modem)

[Dave Fisher]

Hi Nick,

Sorry to disappoint.

I can't entirely disagree with you, but that's probably because I've
always had an aversion to the religious world view.

If you want or need all of the GUI functionality provided by the
Windows packages that you quote, then your two system strategy seems the
logical one to follow.

Since I loathe office 'unproductivity' suites with a vengence, rather
like the Gimp and am content to draw diagrams in Xfig, the hassle of
swapping twixt Linux and Windows is not a burden that I am prepared to
put up with.

The factor which tips the balance for me is the range of key bindings
and customisations available in most Linux window managers.  By
comparison, the Windows desktop is a clunky pile of donkey do.

But why, oh why, can't open source developers get over their childish
drive to re-invent every kind of wheel 'not invented here'?

Dave

On Fri, Nov 14, 2003 at 02:22:32PM +0000, Nik Jewell wrote:
> Thanks for that breath of fresh air Dave - I think I'll take it as my
> opporunity to sound off on the same issue (and I've moved it to
> wylug-discuss), though I doubt you'll agree with what I say.
>
> [I apologise if anybody else has replied in the meantime - we are having
> email woes at the Uni.]
>
> I'm a reasonably experienced Linux user and I agree with everything you
> say, so much so that I've gone back to using XP for 'desktop' activity
> (shock, horror).  I now find that my working environment wherever I go
> needs two computers - one running Linux for system administration and
> development work, and one running XP for any activity for which I want
> to use a GUI.
>
> I got religious and tried for years to switch all my activities to
> Linux, but I've given in - Open Office is a ghastly application, DIA is
> a poor relation to Visio, I cannot be bothered to wade through the
> GIMP's interface when I can fire up Photoshop, Macromedia have never
> ported my all time favourite HTML editor, Homesite, to Linux, though at
> least XML Spy is now purported to work under Wine.  We were once
> interested in Open Office because of its XML file format, but now that
> Altova have made Authentic a free application, I am relieved to not have
> to point my users at Open Office.  X for me, as it is for most
> experienced users I suspect, a means for running multiple xterms.
>
> Linux, however, is the dogs for pretty much everything else I do, though
> I have become increasingly tired of patching it, and am currently
> migrating all my servers to OpenBSD (another shock, horror!)
>
> Anyway, rant over, my message is that I think we in the Linux community
> are only doing ourselves a disservice if we continue to sell Linux as a
> desktop solution *at this stage* in its development.  Using that desktop
> is like wading through treacle.  Some tasks are just better suited to
> GUIs and Linux is not currently the GUI of choice whatever some would
> like to think.
>
> I expect to get burnt for my views, but remember that I hate M$'s
> anti-competitive practices just as much as the next guy, and don't tell
> me about all the alternatives to my way of working - I've tried them.  I
> just need to get my job done, and I look forward to the day when I can
> do what I need to do as efficiently on Linux.
>
> Losin' my religion
>
> Nik
>
> PS The particular area of XP that really pains me is having to invest in
> extra software to protect me from all the malicious mobile code that it
> is so susceptible to, so I intend to move to OS X when I can afford a
> nice shiny powerbook or G5.  Maybe I'll only need one computer then :-)
>
>
> Dave Fisher wrote:
>
> >On Thu, Nov 13, 2003 at 08:49:46PM +0000, Steve King wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Rik did a good talk on this earlier on in the year
> >>
> >>http://www.wylug.org.uk/talks/2003/03/speedtouch.html
> >>
> >>I don't know about SUSE, but I believe that the stingray usb modem "just
> >>works" in recent mandrakes. I've always used it in conjunction with a
> >>smoothwall box where it does "just work".
> >>
> >>However, I'd suggest you dump the usb thing and get an adsl router!
> >>(says he, who is now using his old usb stingray cos his adsl router
> >>broke after a day's use!)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I looks like Rik's talk would be a bit too technical for Steve E.
> >
> >Like everyone else, I'd strongly advise Windows escapees against even
> >attempting to configure an ADSL modem that doesn't just work
> >automatically with a newbie friendly distro.
> >
> >Even the more expensive routers are cheap by comparison with the time
> >and knowledge required to overcome the problems with tricky modems
> >(blame the hardare manufacturers, not Linux).
> >
> >I would also warn most Windows-to-Linux converts that they should not
> >underestimate the extent to which Microsoft have shielded them from the
> >complexities, choices and the conflicts of interest that real computing
> >involves.
> >
> >Many things 'just work' in Windows, because Microsoft has the power to
> >get away with running rough-shod over hardware and software
> >compatibility standards ... and partly,  because they make it virtually
> >impossible for Windows users to interact with packages and devices which
> >are not Microsoft approved.
> >
> >In short, if you expect to be able to pick up Linux quickly, and
> >immediately work in the way that you are used to on WinXP, you might has
> >well give up now and save yourself the time, money and grief.
> >
> >With the possible exception of OS X, Unix/Linux is an extremely broad
> >and literate computing environment.  It takes a considerable amount of
> >study to become fluent in most of its vocabularies, grammar and
> >literature.
> >
> >It is possible to work in the Windows style on Linux, but most
> >experienced Linux users find it hard to advise newbies on such matters,
> >because they rarely use the Windows-style GUI applications provided by
> >Gnome and KDE. These consitute only one tiny part of a much larger Linux
> >landscape, and the best people to guide you through them are often
> >slightly more advanced newbies, i.e. people who have already wasted a
> >lot of their own time trying out the range of GUI tools that are
> >available in a particular field.
> >
> >We are still some way off the time when any Linux destop can provide the
> >singular, consistent, narrow and safe environment that Microsoft does.
> >If you really want to learn Linux, you have to commit yourself to years
> >of learning and tinkering.
> >